[members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?
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Daniel Suchy
danny at danysek.cz
Wed Jul 8 17:33:06 CEST 2020
Hello, yes, simple merges of two existing LIRs aren't complicated. But - in some cases (spinoff, company splits, for example) NCC requires you to start new membership (and pay again signup-fee) instead of assuming membership /membership transfer to legal sucessor (from "mother" to "daughter"), even such change in members structure is properly documented and formally approved by national authorities. Just because your company registration-number changed among together with name due to business structure change. According to current interpretation of ripe-709 you have to: 1) start new membership (for "daughter") 2) proceed transfer (with transfer agreement) 3) terminate old membership (for "mother") Instead of (the simple way): 1) update standard service aggreement from "mother" to "daughter" It seems that *policy* (ripe-709 at this moment) doesn't expect some normal/realworld business structure changes and due to very strict interpretation of policy there're more bureaucratic requrements from NCC, which vere pointed by multiple members here... - Daniel On 7/8/20 12:44 PM, Jānis Jaunošāns wrote: > Greetings, > I’ve merged 4 over the years, merging was very easy, NCC have always > been up to the game, helping and pointing what I was missing. > How the hell a merge can take months and months? :D > Are you not able to provide the needed docs? > > hand, > jj > >> On 8 Jul 2020, at 12:54, @exploitation_reseau <noc at ecritel.net >> <mailto:noc at ecritel.net>> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I couldn't say better, each time I have needed to transfert or merge >> some LIRs it's a pain in the a**. >> >> For example my latest transfert #225596. It cost to me months and >> months to confirm the merge between two companies. Now I have one LIR >> and a sub LIR for 24months... Yeay... See you again in 2022 to finish >> the transfert. >> >> I hope the RIPE could simplify the process. >> >> Such a cumbersome process will inevitably raise the question: Is it >> really necessary that I waste 6 months of my time for a database which >> will not reflect reality anyway for at least 2 two years? >> >> In the meantime, it is very likely that the people in charge of RIPE >> have left or have changed jobs. Or that documents are more difficult >> to find, etc. >> >> Regards, >> >> Boris PASCAULT >> Ecritel >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *De :* Clement Cavadore <ccavadore at vedege.net >> <mailto:ccavadore at vedege.net>> >> *Envoyé :* lundi 6 juillet 2020 15:18 >> *À :* members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >> *Objet :* [members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: >> Any way to soften it ? >> >> Dear members, >> >> I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful >> administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a >> discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and, >> if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the >> "customer experience" :-). >> >> TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too >> strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal >> with administrative changes. >> >> >> >> >> From my own experience, here is what happenned to me: >> >> One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and >> it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started >> to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make >> its administrative status relevant with their real situation. >> That was a big mistake! >> While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had >> to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move, >> but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and >> move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at >> some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done, >> so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources >> to A'). >> >> >> ... but a few months later: Same player play again ! >> Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed >> its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been >> terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc). >> => Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the >> RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was >> we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply >> change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full >> acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a >> member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny >> new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make >> assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org). >> >> I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all >> say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a >> pain in the ass. >> >> >> >> My question is simple: >> 1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the >> situation allows it? >> >> 2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B >> only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there >> were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change? >> >> >> I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out >> administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older >> membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next >> future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling >> that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new >> opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members. >> >> >> For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am >> talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private). >> I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order >> to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations >> seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good >> judgment when it seems valid justifications. >> >> I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they >> didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple >> LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the >> membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead ! >> >> >> Thanks for reading until the end ! >> -- >> Clément Cavadore >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/noc%40ecritel.net >> _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/danny%40danysek.cz >
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