[members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?

Greetings,
I’ve merged 4 over the years, merging was very easy, NCC have always been up to the game, helping and pointing what I was missing.
How the hell a merge can take months and months? :D
Are you not able to provide the needed docs?

hand,
jj

On 8 Jul 2020, at 12:54, @exploitation_reseau <noc at ecritel.net<mailto:noc at ecritel.net>> wrote:

Hello,

I couldn't say better, each time I have needed to transfert or merge some LIRs it's a pain in the a**.

For example my latest transfert #225596. It cost to me months and months to confirm the merge between two companies. Now I have one LIR and a sub LIR for 24months... Yeay... See you again in 2022 to finish the transfert.

I hope the RIPE could simplify the process.

Such a cumbersome process will inevitably raise the question: Is it really necessary that I waste 6 months of my time for a database which will not reflect reality anyway for at least 2 two years?

In the meantime, it is very likely that the people in charge of RIPE have left or have changed jobs. Or that documents are more difficult to find, etc.

Regards,

Boris PASCAULT
Ecritel
________________________________
De : Clement Cavadore <ccavadore at vedege.net<mailto:ccavadore at vedege.net>>
Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2020 15:18
À : members-discuss at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>
Objet : [members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?

Dear members,

I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful
administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a
discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and,
if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the
"customer experience" :-).

TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too
strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal
with administrative changes.




From my own experience, here is what happenned to me:

One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and
it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started
to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make
its administrative status relevant with their real situation.
That was a big mistake!
While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had
to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move,
but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and
move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at
some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done,
so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources
to A').


... but a few months later: Same player play again !
Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed
its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been
terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc).
=> Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the
RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was
we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply
change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full
acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a
member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny
new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make
assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org).

I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all
say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a
pain in the ass.



My question is simple:
1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the
situation allows it?

2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B
only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there
were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change?


I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out
administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older
membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next
future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling
that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new
opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members.


For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am
talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private).
I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order
to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations
seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good
judgment when it seems valid justifications.

I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they
didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple
LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the
membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead !


Thanks for reading until the end !
--
Clément Cavadore



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