[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting

> > 	Do you think that things will go better if you will keep
> > 	them in silence and darkness?
> 
> I do not think so. I want to see more constructive discussion.

Ok. What do you want to discuss then? It had been shown clearly enough
during the ongoing discussion that argumentation in RIPE-167
is weak enough even for Russia and merely inappropriate for CIS. 
If you want to use constructive approach then IMHO it could be done
like this:
1. The process of creating the new RIR should be suspended since it's not
   obvious what will be created and why.
2. Another document should be issued with much more solid motivation
   (if you have it) and the document should clearly state how the intended
   process of transition would work, what region will be served, etc.
3. The new document should be discussed then.
If all you've said during this discussion w.r.t. your intentions holds true,
then you should clearly see this approach as advantegeous.

> > 	How about my proposal of creating a ripe-167+ document,
> > 	reviewed, revised, more solid and with more representative
> > 	authorship?
> 
> Yes, I like it. I want only to mention that this is just what we
> decided in Moscow (only ripe-167+ was not mentioned): to establish
> RIPE office and continue to work on documents on RIR within working

Ughh... First we create some formal organization and then let it
work out, what it should do, what territory it serves,... Correct? 
A very nice thing and waaay professional... Oh, by the way, regarding 
Moscow meeting. The document adopted there indicates the whole FSU territory
as the region served by RIR. It disregards what you've called the 
"consolidated opinion" of Ukrainian ISPs. Will your workgroup continue 
to disregard other's opinions? Then it's official status may result 
in many problems.

> group which is open to all interested parties. By the way, the
> working group has already prepared some documents and is ready
> to submit them for starting discussion.
> 
> The only thing I insist: we need to begin _practical_ work, including
> the RIPE NCC office - otherwise nothing will be done. The discussion
> that we participate in can last till infinity.

The discussion surely _will_ continue to infinity if you do not have
well-motivated, well-argumented proposals with clearly stated purpose
and with support from the majority of LIRs situated in every country/territory
you want to serve. If you cannot get support - do not include the territory.
If your motivation is not accepted by the community you want to serve -
you have wrong motivation. Would you like to start _practical_ work
without clear understanding of the tasks you want to carry out,
without clear understanding of whom do you serve and what are advantages
of being served by you? If so, then the professional level of the new
RIR (or RIPE NCC Office in Moscow for that matter) would seem to be... low.

> And you should take into consideration that the office works _de facto_
> the last 1,5 years, you know about it. I have to do something with the

Then what is wrong with it working de facto another half a year without
the official status? And to finally make all the others understand
your position, goals and intentions, to formalize the transition process
and procedures, to ... Well, you probably got the idea.

> community that already gets service through RosNIIROS, either to stop it
> immediately (quality of service is falling due to unregulated scheme,
> both financial and organizational) or to move forward.

So, in a nutshell, you want to say the following:
"I am serving some 50 LIRs now for free. I want to get money for my service.
Currently my service is bad but as you pay me money, it will become
more appropriate. Take my word for it. Now, since I want to establish
the RIR, I need to indicate the region. I'm serving several LIRs from abroad
Russia, so let the region be FSU. And no, I do not have good arguments for
why the RIR should be created except we need money badly to increase the
level of service. But see guys - I'm honest! Take my vows for it!"

Right?

> 
> Regards,
> Alexei Platonov
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Igor Romanenko                                                   @..@
Office: igor at lucky.net, +380-(44)-290-03-48                     (----)
Home:   igor at frog.kiev.ua                                      ( |  | )
http://www.lucky.net/~igor/                                      "  "
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