[anti-abuse-wg] [ripe-list] RIPE AA-WG discussion

Hi Carsten,

I made a mistake in judgement with regards to what the email was about, so
I think this topic is sort of redundant at this point.
And to not end up spamming people too much, I think we should at least
restrict it to aa-wg only if it should be discussed further (which I don't
personally think it should).
I got an email mentioning how this is maybe not too much in scope for RIPE
list.

-Cynthia


On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:46 PM Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de>
wrote:

> Hi Cynthia,
>
> I share Volker's PoV to some larger extend: yes, Tobias' email might be
> a bit edgy wrt. marketing - but one could also read his first mentioning
> of him being Co-Chair as just proper introduction. And the second one as
> a reasoning why his email just went to you instead of the AA WG list as
> a whole.
>
> Also, it would be interesting - at least for me - which of your postings
> triggered Tobias' private response. I am unsure which one of your's at:
>
>
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/2021-February/date.html
>
> to pick...
>
> ATB,
>
>         -C.
>
> On 22.02.2021 18:23, Cynthia Revström via ripe-list wrote:
> > It is possible but I highly doubt it.
> >
> >> We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any
> > size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so
> on.
> >
> > That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't.
> > Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video
> > call?
> >
> > Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see
> > how this isn't marketing.
> >
> > -Cynthia
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann
> > <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal
> >     to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as
> >     a sales pitch.
> >
> >     Best,
> >     --
> >     Volker A. Greimann
> >     General Counsel and Policy Manager
> >     *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
> >
> >     T: +49 6894 9396901
> >     M: +49 6894 9396851
> >     F: +49 6894 9396851
> >     W: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/>
> >
> >     Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> >     Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> >     CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
> >
> >     Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> >     England and Wales with company number 8576358.
> >
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> >
> >     On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg
> >     <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi,
> >
> >         (intro)
> >         Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to)
> >         abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me
> >         services based on what I said on a mailing list.
> >
> >         (mainly towards Tobias)
> >         Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to
> >         sell me services is bad enough.
> >         To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are
> >         co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
> >
> >         I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a
> >         working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in
> >         the thread at all.
> >
> >         also this:
> >         > As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
> >         mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
> >
> >         I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking
> >         but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell
> >         something, because it is bad.
> >
> >         (mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs)
> >         A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or
> >         removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
> >
> >         I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be
> >         wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
> >
> >         I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell
> >         me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of
> >         replying saying I am not interested).
> >         But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs
> >         of the db-wg.
> >
> >         Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially
> >         thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in
> >         his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
> >
> >         I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too
> >         appalling to be held private.
> >
> >         -Cynthia
> >
> >
> >         On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk at abusix.com
> >         <mailto:tk at abusix.com>> wrote:
> >
> >             Hello Cynthia,
> >
> >             my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working
> >             Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
> >
> >
> >             As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the
> >             mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
> >
> >             We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers
> >             of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to
> >             DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
> >
> >             Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have
> >             and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
> >
> >             Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my
> >             calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
> >             <https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min>
> >
> >             Thanks and stay safe.
> >
> >             Tobias
> >
> >             --
> >
> >
> >             Tobias Knecht
> >
> >
> >
> >             Founder & CEO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             T.
> >
> >
> >
> >             +49 170 455 98 45
> >
> >             abusix.com
> >             <
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             Book a meeting
> >             <
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >             My Logo
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