<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Carsten,</div><div> </div><div>I made a mistake in judgement with regards to what the email was about, so I think this topic is sort of redundant at this point.</div><div>And to not end up spamming people too much, I think we should at least restrict it to aa-wg only if it should be discussed further (which I don't personally think it should).</div><div>I got an email mentioning how this is maybe not too much in scope for RIPE list.</div> <div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">-Cynthia</div></div></div> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 2:46 PM Carsten Schiefner <<a href="mailto:ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de">ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Cynthia, I share Volker's PoV to some larger extend: yes, Tobias' email might be a bit edgy wrt. marketing - but one could also read his first mentioning of him being Co-Chair as just proper introduction. And the second one as a reasoning why his email just went to you instead of the AA WG list as a whole. Also, it would be interesting - at least for me - which of your postings triggered Tobias' private response. I am unsure which one of your's at: <a href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/2021-February/date.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/2021-February/date.html</a> to pick... ATB, -C. On 22.02.2021 18:23, Cynthia Revström via ripe-list wrote: > It is possible but I highly doubt it. > >> We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any > size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on. > > That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't. > Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video > call? > > Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see > how this isn't marketing. > > -Cynthia > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann > <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>> wrote: > > I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal > to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as > a sales pitch. > > Best, > -- > Volker A. Greimann > General Counsel and Policy Manager > *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH* > > T: +49 6894 9396901 > M: +49 6894 9396851 > F: +49 6894 9396851 > W: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> <<a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.key-systems.net/</a>> > > Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of > Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 > CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner > > Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in > England and Wales with company number 8576358. > > This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended > only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the > intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or > other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately > and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg > <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>>> wrote: > > Hi, > > (intro) > Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) > abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me > services based on what I said on a mailing list. > > (mainly towards Tobias) > Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to > sell me services is bad enough. > To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are > co-chair as a selling point is much worse. > > I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a > working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in > the thread at all. > > also this: > > As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the > mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly. > > I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking > but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell > something, because it is bad. > > (mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) > A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or > removed if they abuse their position to sell their services. > > I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be > wrong, but idk why this would be the first time. > > I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell > me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of > replying saying I am not interested). > But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs > of the db-wg. > > Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially > thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in > his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email. > > I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too > appalling to be held private. > > -Cynthia > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <<a href="mailto:tk@abusix.com" target="_blank">tk@abusix.com</a> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:tk@abusix.com" target="_blank">tk@abusix.com</a>>> wrote: > > Hello Cynthia, > > my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working > Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix. > > > As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the > mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly. > > We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers > of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to > DC-Services, Cable, and so on. > > Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have > and tell you about how our clients handle those things. > > Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my > calendar: <a href="https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min</a> > <<a href="https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min</a>> > > Thanks and stay safe. > > Tobias > > -- > > > Tobias Knecht > > > > Founder & CEO > > > > > > T. > > > > +49 170 455 98 45 > > <a href="http://abusix.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">abusix.com</a> > <<a href="https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMTCaPgfev0DqYl37D4m9Ee4vsbDzR0i3-_vR79jccowDesvdhqrvzXzi6k_yA1omSOmnzd-c_2CqBfYJjJFgV9BQOpBRSRjC8wMv-fT3nwGx3tkMlHQ6jWt4ciVIkA_II6" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMTCaPgfev0DqYl37D4m9Ee4vsbDzR0i3-_vR79jccowDesvdhqrvzXzi6k_yA1omSOmnzd-c_2CqBfYJjJFgV9BQOpBRSRjC8wMv-fT3nwGx3tkMlHQ6jWt4ciVIkA_II6</a>> > > > > > > Book a meeting > <<a href="https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWvzSzogpcTfxgYqITma2NzHMq5pXRQAYjPHEkBYpwTr5FBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWvzSzogpcTfxgYqITma2NzHMq5pXRQAYjPHEkBYpwTr5FBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==</a>> > > > > > > My Logo > > > > > > > > <<a href="https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWkBl_vB1ZA4WrZhHQQ6slR_5b_FnETHpRTKihQLpXLRkFBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWkBl_vB1ZA4WrZhHQQ6slR_5b_FnETHpRTKihQLpXLRkFBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==</a>> > > > > <<a href="https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWuwTIYoZ5mdTWmhqltOyd8WxVKbCGLLoqGos1EesYhP7" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWuwTIYoZ5mdTWmhqltOyd8WxVKbCGLLoqGos1EesYhP7</a>> > > > > <<a href="https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWmVS4sTjl1cJ51NN-gNCB_rcu1jgPRgfsr52W-kkb52KhFdCjGAFnnZN_nkWEHAE7w==" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWmVS4sTjl1cJ51NN-gNCB_rcu1jgPRgfsr52W-kkb52KhFdCjGAFnnZN_nkWEHAE7w==</a>> > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise > protected from disclosure. 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