[anti-abuse-wg] Re: Use of RIPE region space by out-of-region users, was RIPE policy

In message <1299676562.2210.43.camel at shane-desktop>, 
Shane Kerr <shane at time-travellers.org> wrote:

>> What does traceroute  to, e.g., 178.215.176.99 indicate to you?
>> 
>> I'm not an expert in these things, so please do tell me what YOU think.
>
>Looks like it's going out of New York.

"Going out of New York"??

Is there any evidence that the traceroute ever LEAVES New York, I mean
once it gets into the city?

If so, it sure isn't apparent to me.

>      .
>  9. xe-1-1-0.er1.lga5.us.above.n  0.0%    10   84.5  88.1  84.4 114.5   9.3
> 10. 209.249.75.160                0.0%    10   85.3  85.1  84.1  86.3   0.8
> 11. ???                          100.0    10    0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0   0.0
> 12. 178.215.176.99               10.0%    10  153.8 156.3 153.8 158.1   1.4
>
>We see that it seems to be coming from 209.249.75.160. 

Yes.  Quite.

>That appears in the ARIN database as NET-209-249-75-0-1, which has the
>following customer information:

Yes.  Some company in Brooklyn, NY.

>So, my guess would be that the Ukrainian holder of this PI block decided
>to have it hosted by an American company.

I wish there were an emoticon for a double-take.

As there isn't, I'll just say "Eh?? Come again??"

So let me see if I get this.  A ``provider'' in the RIPE region can go
to RIPE and ask for a hunk of IP space.  When RIPE gives the organization
in question the space, then that organization can just turn around and give
it to anybody else they damn well please.  They don't have to provide any
connectivity.  They can just take the block and have it ``hosted'' (your
word, not mine) with some totally different ACTUAL connectivity provider
elsewhere?  Is that what you are saying?

Does the organization that first obtained the space from RIPE even have
to be the one announcing routes to the space?

>That seems just as legitimate
>as a Russian company providing services to an American company.

What is the ``service'' that is being provided?  I mean other than being
the front-man who snookers RIPE out of the IP space (so that it can then
just be immediately resold to somebody else who will actually route it
and provide copper or fiber to it).

>> Someone suggested that there already exists a policy to the effect that
>> providing IP block without also providing connectivity is a no-no.
>> 
>> Or did I misunderstand that?
>
>You did misunderstand that.
>
>As I understand it, you can request IP space if you either are an LIR or
>can find an LIR to request a PI block for you, and you have a need for
>it. This need might be providing connectivity, but it could also be web
>hosting, or video delivery, or download farms, or research networks, or
>a million other purposes that may or may not have been invented yet.

Jesus!  Really?

*I* have a real, legitimate, and serious need for... umm... a /14 right now,
because you know, what with the economic crisis of the past couple of years
my retirement account has been seriously diminished, and I need to restore
it to its former glory if I am to have any hope of retiring this century.
So I "need" a /14 from RIPE.   I need it because there are a whole lot of
spammers on this side of the pond who will pay me Big Bucks for even just
a /21, and I can break up the /14 and resell it as a whole lot of of smaller
blocks (to the spammers).

So, um, where exactly does one apply for a RIPE IPv4 allocation?

I'll move to France if I have to.  It will be worth it.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  I want to thank you for bringing this gold mine of an opportunity to
my attention.