RIPE 37

Chair: Fearghas McKay

Scribe: David Knight

Agenda: No changes to the proposed agenda

Internet Exchange Reports:

INEX:

Internet Neutral Exchange
Alex Fench (Via Networks)

Founded 96, operational 97

Founder members:

eunet ireland
heanet
indigo
telecom internet

All members share operational tasks and nominate one board member,
hence no operational staff ... 3 honorary staff. Chairman Mike Norris.

Current Members:

11

Eligibility:

isps only
must have independent route to mae east
must be rir member

Fees:

635 eu joining
2857 eu annual (for 2000)

Facilities:

two racks in a colo
two cisco switches, ups, generator, model is byob
acces is digi leased lines, sdh, atm

Traffic stats:

avg 5.5 Mbps
peak 18 Mbps

Douling 11 months
Prefixes 162

Upgrade planned:

tender for a new facility in progress
carrier class location
extra space for new members and bigger / more kit
all the usual stuf of any IX

More info:

www.inex.ie
MoU
App forms
Tender docs ... for new facility
INEX secretary:

Questions:

Switches ?

cisco 29??

New Location ?

members will meet the costs of moving to the new location



AMSIX:

Since ripe36:

Increase in members from 90 to 101
Increase in routers 99 to 111

Peak traffic since ripe 36 1.6g to 2.4g

Housing:

sara and nikhef are full
nikhef expanded by 80 cabinets by dec2000

will go to 2 new locations
telecity 5000m2
global switch (they are building 31,000m2 facility by Q4 2000)

In use:

Foundry big iron, sara nikhef interconnected with 2 fibre pairs
ordering 2 ig irons ...
ipv6 ports deployd at normal rate, this will be provided as a
regular service ...

Port charges (unchanged):

10 500 eu p/m
100 850 eu p/m
1000 1200 eu p/m

Questions:

Who owns the fibre interconnects ?

not amsix, amsix owns the kit which was donated
amsix is the only manager of the switches
rate is total summary of all isps who peer on the two switches
they currently run a multicast test
there is multicast mailing list, info on mcast tests on amsix site


LINX:

Mike Hughes Network Architect

Organisationl changes:

Keith Mitchell has resigned
Rolan Perry has been appointed as interim ceo
Nick Lewis left, this sparked a reorganisation in eng at Linx
Mike and Chris Fletcher become project leaders ...
Frees chris and mike from support for work on large high impact
projects
allows progression for other team members
more clearly defined job focus

Traffic Levels:

Recently broke the 3Gb barier
Daily minimum is now over a gig
www2.linx.net
Rate is aggregate of all ports ... 8 switches are in service
Reimplimentation of stats system ... mrtg could no longer cope
Chris implemented rrdtool
Graphs and pages done on the fly with cgi ...

current members - 110 / 50% from UK ... member from most
eu countries

expansion sites:

Expanding to 7 sites ... fibre is delaying things
Local authority upset with amount of road dug up for fibre install
London underground also in on the act, tubes sunk too close to the
tunnels
One site, redbus, live since feb
IX europe lit an on test
Guardian and interxion are almost ready, most linx kit is
installed, just waiting for fibre
Expanded into telehouse east building, equipped with foundry
switches, this helps relieve a lot of stree on telehouse north
which is very full
First extreme black diamond I swith installed, very happy

new technology:

Scalability of a flat layer two exchange point - will it
hit a barrier ?
Threat of a lack of intelligence
Effective handling of multicast
Main strength is the simplicity
However this strenght could in future become a weakness ...
Looking at possibilities of usin wdm
Looking into packet ring study group ... turn cisco dpt into
an ieee standard supporting gE an 10gE physical transports
grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/rprsg/

Projects:

Seperate mcast infrastructure
17 members connected
4 or 5 actually mcasting now
Steve walker organised a two day event in
july, 40 attendees
Workign with Cisco to develop a protool to contain mcast traffic
in a layer 2 ennvironment
Cisco havea loaned a catalyst 5500
Trying to get other vendors involved
90% of the kit connected to the exchange is cisco
Mcast project expansion is planned
They need to get people into using mcast, find that killer app
Possiility of another mcast event in the future

Working now with RIPE NCC on RIS project
Route servers replaced by a RIS box
www.ripe.net - ris site

A Caida project to map the internet
Caida skitter box installed, on the k-root lan
Extreme switch at telecity replaced with a black diamond I
Alcatel too low port density, foundry are smaller



SFINX:


Franck Simon - Tehnical Manager

Locations:

La Bourse existing
12eme second
Aubervilliers newest

Current status:

Interconnection of second sfinx pop, suffered from bad delays due
to faulty kit

Links are gig, using WDM

All architecture is based on cisco catalyst switces

4 switches, sfinx1 offers 10/100 others offer 1000

Managed service

Hosted service only also offered

Managed service is no longer offered but still provide for those
who already have it

aubervilliers - 50 cabinets 10 carriers
12eme 12 cabinets 3 carriers

All the pops can be accesses 24/7 ...

Transit not allowed and private peerings not allowed between
isps on the sfinx

Basic service comparable to standard ix service

2nd dns via peering with afnic

Router reset can be done by sfinx staff

on sfinx all isps bar one come with cisco routers

New services: (only at the new pops)

Stats

Vlan service - possile for isps to dedicate bandwidth for speific
peerings

Route reflector to simplify peerings

Route server, routing table chek an comparison with RIPE db

NTP service

IPv6 peering with renater


Optional services:

Extra 10/100
Gig
Mcast


Future:

New pops will bring a big trafic increase, atm isp's ar not coming
at capacity


Manager [email protected]
[email protected]

Questions:

Why don't you allow people to provide transit ?

Want to remain a peering point
If they see transit they have the right to disconect the
isps involved

Is the no private connect rule not contrary to IX ?

People wanting to do this must do it outside the sfinx room
so they might have to put in two set of kit

They get a room in a colo, they povide the switch, they
pay a colo operator to manage the service


They bill on the physical size of the router, hence you must
be in the sfinx room to peer, if you are already in the colo
you must also put a seperate router in the sfinx room



INXS:

Intro:

Is a neutral exchainge point
Oldest ixp in germany
Established in munich in 94
Operated by cable an wireless
Open host policy - no restriction to carriers
Isps may make inxs their pop in munic

Requirement:

Have AS num, be a LIR, must house a router at inxs, switches
and lan not allowed, no oligation to peer

Facilities:

Standard 19" racks
4 units per member
4 units 500 DM / month
Access control system
Cisco catalysts are in use
6 racks now, 6 more reserved


Support:

24/7 phone supprt
Router reset on request
Physical check of conections
24/7 access arrangeable
Extended support by contract


Contact:

http://www.inxs.de
Members area

mail lists:

[email protected]
[email protected]

archive available on http://www.inxs.de

Upstreams:

cable and wireless
ebone
aucs - coming

Carriers:

colt
dtag
m-net

lines termintate in carrier room

Future services:

Looking for a second switch
No connect to exisiting, for independence
No oligation to connect to second switch
Multicast via dedicated switch by end of 2000
Out of band access
Isdn dialin or telnet by end of oct 2000
Switch stats by end of oct 2000
Testing ipv6 until Jan next year
Only beta ios available with ipv6 support
During test phase no fees
Aditional racks for ipv6 routers at inxs
Only regular inxs members may take part

Genereal:

32 members
Inxs moved from old ECRC facilities
Distributed peering point has been established
Redundant gig links
22 members moved successfully
5 to be moved until 21 sep


Information:

www.inxs.de
[email protected]


Questions:

They will set up an mcast mailing list

Private interconnects are okay




VIX:




Status:

Individual peaks up to 90Mbps
Stats worry them as they are where LINX was one year ago
Perhaps this time ex year they will have the kind of traffic that
linx has right now +3Gb

Exchange is accessible only during ofice hours, outside
office hours is best effort, no contracts available

2 outages in the last 4 years, one hour power outage, . one 2 hour
switch failure

Various line carriers availabe ...


Near Future:

Gig by q4 2000

1st vix extension at interxion, neutral colo, expected to come
on line within q4 2000

Big problem is getting dark fibre in vienna for redundant multi
gig trunk interconnect

Improvement of service level, 24/7 service - improved redundancy

Mcast environents will be driven by member interest and active
participation - connections to a dedidcated fethernet hub,
gets the feelin that the market is there now f mcast service.

The national TV company wants to mcast


Requirements:

Have own AS
Be a LIR
Internationl connectiity independant of existing members,
prefixes and peerings registered in the ripe db


Charging:

10 euro p/m 10t
200 p/n 100bt

charging model to be adapted, with new site ad gig


Questions:

Apparently catalyst 59 doesn't cope too well with mcast on an
exchange point

Currently 3 are taking part in mcast tests, 2 more are interested
no public announcement of tests yet, working currently with internal
partner, most people just want to watch for the time being, this
will open up soon, when there is experience and time, it is not
currently announced, nobody is excluded, special requests can
join in

We announce peers to other peers in the db, randy wants to
announce customers not peers, peers miht be private, you
dont announce peers to other peers, but you always announce
customers to your peers, so why not have that documented,
why ?

Vix peering matrix is no longer maintained by vix, each customer
can maintain their own bit

They were offerin newsfeecds for their pri customers unis, etc,
newsfeeds suck up too much bandwidth these days. Vix reduced the
feed back to the groups of academic value

As they cannot deliver a full feed anymore they do not offer
newsfeeds at all now



CERN CIXP:

Paolo Maroni

Exchange point for switzerland
Colo'd with cern
Non profit best effort

basic fibre providers

colt
sig (electrical provide)
mci worldom, sunrise, ...

30 isps now members

The recent trend is for global isps, less local ones

CERN and other research nets are connected


Infrastructure:

Cisco catalyst 4003, 5505
10/100/1000 port available - most isps use 100
Back to back links are allowed
Extreme networks summit48 ordered

Infrmal measurements show

peaks between 100 - 200 Mb

back to back traffic needs to be added to the global traffic

Normal services of an IXP


Best effort services:

oob cables and lines

24/7 operations

Equipment install on request

Kit maintenance - card install etc, on request

www site - including bgp list of contacts

Infrastructure monitoring


Isues:

Staff unavailability
Rack space - some requests have to be rejected
Contact with isps - a more detailed install procedure would help
Limited to cern until end of sep 2000
A new non exclusive partnership with telehouse suisse
Distribute infrastructure (Gig links) already there
Security in telehouse much better
Allows large pops connected directly to cixp


Development:

New www site
Split from cern external network
Looking glass
Mcast - some experiments on their own, so far only one request
from a member, they want to get more confident with the technology
before announcing it to the membership
They would like to get better stats with mrtg, etc
Content distro service, they are talking to people about
hosting equipment
Better coordination between cixp members
Sec dns, ipv6 and a route server
They have already ipv6 conectivity ...
They have had one request for a route server ...

Contact:
http://network.cern.ch/public/services/cixp/index.html


Informal nature o the cixp seems to be working well right now ...



-=-=-=--=-=-=-
END OF REPORTS
-=-=-=--=-=-=-



BEST CURRENT PRACTICE:


IXP-BCP Whats happenin ?

Nick Lewis offered to edit the document
Working for LINX then, during ripe36

Nick is now working for a commercial isp and does not envisage a
conflict of interest, his current employer supports the internet
community activity, he has done a lot of work analysing ixp's
around europe and would like to share this knowledge with the
community

He is very keen to ontinue

Does the group agree ?

Yes

His point of view having come from an IXP to an ISP is appreciated

Rapid pace of technology will make this doc old quick



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Suggestion to change the charter ...

Suggestion from Keith - change in the wording of the new EIX Charter


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Presentaion from I-Point Holdings

A Way forward for European IXP's - Annette Nabavi


I-Point set up to enhance the inter-isp infrastructure in europe

Through consolidation and expansion they hope to achieve this

UK based holding compay, well backed by venture capital

Operating companies in each ountry

Want to work with all major exchange point where possible, will roll out
across eu within 12 months


They are not an isp, or a colo, or a telco, or an asp, or a trade
association


They will:


Provide funding or growth
Service and tehnology enhancements
Consistency in all eu countries
They beleive absolutely in neutrality
Flexibility an fast response is vital skeleton staff model cannot
last, they want to have a consistently well maintaind ix network
throughout the EU
Will work toward staff motivation and retention
They want to ensure that service levels are maintained
and inrcreased, evolution not revolution

Neutrality is a key issue
Will guarantee 3 independent colos in metro area
No exclusive arrangements
Similar approach across europe

Management team includes:

Annette Nabavi CEO
Keith Mitchell CTO
Richard Almeida
Alex Bligh

Advisory Committee made up of IXP / internet gurus:

Rob Blokzijl among others ..

Whats it all about:

They want to aquire IXP's in the EU, if that is not possible
they can look into setting up new indeendent IXP's ..
They want to reassure that neutrality will continue ...
They see benefits as funding for growth, one stop shopping
service and techonology comes quicker, free of current
governance model, minimum disruption to existing services.


Main Venture Capitalists:

Nexus Equities
Nexus investments
GMT


Questions:


Why the buyout model ?

They believe its vital for customers to come directly to
one company for services


They will not provide conectivity between their exchange points


They will roll out to eu countries (10ish) over the next 12 months

The rules of current ix's seem to reflect the protectionism of the
founder members investment

If the company is bought out, they claim that a new owner would
destroy the company by altering the neutrality position ergo
the neutrality is assured

They don't intend to exclude people, but how do you make bargain
basement services ?

Who's idea was this ?

Keith Mitchell

Existing ixps facing threats, colos threaten that if ixps don't
work with them they will start operating as ixps themselves

Its harder to stay ahead of the technology requirements with funding
from current members

The main problem is that every euro ix has a diferent service level,
and level of information

i-Point will fix this by standardising the eu ixp's

Community cooperative doesn't work anymore

Wih the cooperative omunity model there is not the same recourse for
damages recovery

Why a buyout model instead of a licensing model ?

Its important that they can guarantee a fast responsive
service.