RIPE Database Working Group Minutes RIPE 88
Thursday, 23 May 09:00 - 10:30 (UTC+2)
Chairs: Denis Walker, William Sylvester, David Tatlisu
Scribe: Alun Davies
Status: Draft
A. Introduction
Mirjam Kühne (RIE Chair) asked for clarification on the remaining term length for Denis's WG Chair position, noting that she might have missed it. David Tatlisu confirmed it was a one-year term to maintain the annual Chair rotation schedule.
William Sylvester provided background on the current chair selection process. He explained that many years ago, a new plan was implemented to replace the previous random selection method. This new process included three-year terms with staggered start dates to ensure continuity, avoiding the replacement of all Chairs simultaneously, which had occurred eight years prior. The goal was to complete Denis's term to maintain this continuity between new and existing Chairs.
David Tatlisu observed no opposition in the room or on the chat. He then initiated a poll on Meetecho for the Chair selection of Peter and William.
B. Operational Update
Edward Shryane, RIPE NCC
Leo Vegoda (And Polus LLC / PeeringDB) thanked Ed for his work on UTF-8, emphasising its importance for accurately reflecting various writing systems in the database. He raised a concern about RDAP not being fully supported for all Internet number resources and suggested creating a transparency report to identify gaps. Edward acknowledged the issue, noting that RDAP traffic has remained low and agreed on the need for a report to address missing features, particularly in the IRR database. Leo further clarified the importance of understanding the scale of the gaps and the affected regions to improve RDAP adoption. Edward agreed to consider these suggestions.
Peter Hessler (Zayo Europe) commented on UTF-8, following up on Leo's remarks. He noted that a quick Google search showed LACNIC returning UTF-8 objects on Whois Port 43 and suggested examining other major Whois providers to see who else is providing UTF-8. Edward responded that he had reviewed all the RIRs and found that most do not yet return UTF-8, with most still using Latin-1. He acknowledged the diversity of languages within the community and offered to share detailed findings with Peter separately.
Cynthia Revström (Itnord Security Solutions AB) noted that while some databases or Whois providers might already support UTF-8, it could be challenging because Whois clients typically have this hard-coded. This means that even if LACNIC supports UTF-8, it might not immediately facilitate RIPE doing the same. Edward acknowledged the point and, seeing no further questions, concluded the discussion.
C. Adding Contact Methods in Whois and RDAP
Cynthia Revström, Dmitry Kohmanyuk, Leo Vegoda
Shane Kerr (IBM) expressed uncertainty about the preference for private URIs versus standard protocols. He questioned whether polling the community would yield accurate preferences and sought opinions on adopting private URI schemes. Dmitry responded that he preferred not to rely on vendors to fill the namespace being used and was skeptical about the IETF route due to its slow progress. He opposed using custom schemes like SGNL, which might work on some devices but not on others, especially Linux systems.
Shane acknowledged the challenges of different system behaviours and mentioned the difficulties of handling links on various devices. Dmitry suggested adding a database object called "contact method" and linking it within the contact object as a possible solution. Shane agreed, noting that it wasn't an insurmountable problem, and Dmitry concluded that separating the method from the data was a good approach since the current system only required handling a few parameters without needing complex mechanisms.
Cynthia Revström noted the ease of encoding in Whois, saying that the challenge lies in supporting RDAP with minimal additional work, ideally using existing standards. She emphasised the preference for avoiding proprietary formats and mentioned that the RFC displayed could be a viable solution. Dmitry acknowledged this and invited further comments from the audience and the Chairs.
Leo Vegoda, as a co-proposer, supported the idea of adding a third option for Internet contact between networks. He noted that email and phone contacts often rely on a few providers and that having an additional, quick contact method is operationally beneficial. Dmitry agreed, emphasising the importance of reliable communication. He mentioned that while email and phone have their limitations, a third option could ensure delivery and receipt confirmation. He also highlighted that Signal now uses usernames instead of phone numbers, adding flexibility but also the potential for frequent changes. William Sylvester shared an online comment expressing support for using URIs and cautioning against private schemas.
D. NWI Review
Working Group Chairs
Following Denis's presentation, William Sylvester acknowledged Denis's long-standing contributions to the RIPE community. Denis, who joined the Working Group with William in 2016, had previously worked as a software engineer at RIPE NCC and had been involved with the RIPE database for over 20 years. William extended the community's gratitude and best wishes for Denis's retirement, prompting a round of applause.
Denis expressed his gratitude and mentioned that, although he is retiring, he might still engage with the community occasionally. He acknowledged the difficulty of completely stepping away after 25 years of involvement but stated his intention to take a break and possibly return with comments in the future. Denis mentioned planning a holiday during the next RIPE meeting, indicating he would not be attending.
E. Working Group Discussion
Working Group Chairs
Cynthia Revström expressed her appreciation for numbered work items, noting their practicality for the Working Group. She mentioned that these items are more suitable for smaller tasks that do not require the extensive process of the Policy Development Process (PDP). Cynthia suggested that it might be time to introduce a new numbered work item (NWI) for contact-related matters. William Sylvester acknowledged Cynthia's comments and asked for additional input from the attendees, but there were no further comments.
Z. AOB: Open Discussion
William highlighted the ongoing efforts to standardise the WG Chair selection process under the guidance of Mirjam. The goal is to establish a clear and regular system for Chair selection, ensuring a deep bench of capable individuals ready to assist with the WG's activities. He encouraged everyone to stay informed about these forthcoming changes. Peter Hessler thanked everyone for attending.