Connect Working Group Minutes RIPE 89
Thursday, 31 October 2024, 09:00 - 10:30 (UTC+1)
Chairs: Paul Hoogsteder, Stavros Konstantaras, Will van Gulik
Scribe: Jelena Ćosić
Status: Draft
View the stenography transcripts
1. Welcome
The presentation is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/112-Connect-WG-Ripe89-opening_closing.pdf
The recording is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/archives/video/1492/
Will van Gulik introduced his co-chairs, Stavros and Paul, and noted this was their first time chairing the session. Together, they opened the session and welcomed everyone to their “second-favourite WG session.”
2. Housekeeping
Will reminded the working group that the minutes of the Connect WG session at RIPE 88 were online for their review.
3. PeeringDB Update
Leo Vegoda, And Polus LLC / PeeringDB
The presentation is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/presentations/63-20241031_RIPE89_Connect_WG_Leo_Vegoda.pdf
Leo Vegoda updated the group on PeeringDB’s recent organisational changes, including a new secretary and expanded committees, and highlighted improvements in search functionality, security (with mandatory multi-factor authentication), and the addition of IXP switch location support. He encouraged feedback to help refine these updates.
There were no questions.
4. Introducing IXP Manager v7
Barry O’Donovan, INEX
The presentation is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/presentations/109-ripe89-inex-ixpmanagerv7.pdf
Barry O'Donovan presented updates on IXP Manager, including new diagnostic tools, security improvements and a planned major release (v7) with enhanced PHP requirements, a modernised user portal and support for additional languages. He highlighted new features aimed at simplifying port diagnostics, member-facing functionality and route server resilience, along with longer-term goals to integrate OpenBGPD and time series data for member traffic analysis.
Marcos Sanz from DE-CIX asked if IXP Manager plans to integrate programmatic features like DE-CIX’s API for better user experience.
Barry confirmed plans for a provisioning pipeline to streamline member onboarding and port provisioning.
Will van Gulik from RomandIX asked if upgrading from older versions like 4.9 is feasible or if starting fresh would be easier. Barry suggested starting fresh might be simpler due to compatibility issues and offered help with database migration. Will asked about financial support for the project, and Barry pointed to the sponsorship section on the website, noting a need for ongoing funding.
5. Blocking and Censoring the Italian Internet for Football Reasons: An Explanation and History
Massimiliano Stucchi, Glevia
The presentation is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/presentations/114-10-RIPE89-PiracyShield.pdf
Massimiliano Stucchi discussed Italy's recent law requiring ISPs to rapidly block IP addresses and domains associated with illegal streaming, highlighting its severe operational challenges and unintended consequences. Implemented through a hastily developed platform, this system has inadvertently blocked legitimate services like Cloudflare and Google Drive, affecting thousands of websites with limited recourse for users. The process is opaque, with no public access to the blocked list and no formal appeals process, complicating matters for affected businesses. Additional regulations now require ISPs to report suspected illegal activity, causing some users to disconnect RIPE Atlas probes to avoid potential legal issues. Despite the current law's issues, Italian authorities plan to adopt a new law to improve enforcement.
Tom Strickx, Cloudflare, asked about validation of IP addresses used for streaming, which Massimiliano confirmed does not exist, indicating poor enforcement standards. He cited an incident where even Google Drive was blocked, underscoring the lack of transparency.
Silvan Gebhardt from OpenFactory proposed reverse-engineering the blocklist through ISP monitoring tools. Marco d’Itri of Seeweb noted that some researchers maintain a partial public record of blocked resources, which ISPs may informally share.
Raffaele Sommese, University of Twente, argued that enforcing IP blocks for suspected piracy is fundamentally flawed and impractical.
Fredy Künzler, Init7, questioned the law’s constitutionality given Italy’s anti-censorship laws. Marco d'Itri explaining that IP blocking has escalated since 2006 and is now embedded due to strong financial interests tied to broadcasting rights.
Radu-Adrian Feurdean, France-IX, questioned why someone from outside Italy was presenting this issue instead of an Italian ISP, suggesting that if local ISPs have avoided presenting, it might be due to legal constraints. Max clarified that it was not a legal issue but rather a lack of initiative and available time among local operators.
Christian Cinetto, Namex, emphasised the role of the Italian parliament, not just the government, in passing the law. He suggested there was a widespread lack of understanding of Internet infrastructure among lawmakers, driven by public support for anti-piracy measures.
Max expressed appreciation for the discussion. He urged continued advocacy at the European Parliament to ensure more informed decision-making on Internet regulation.
6. Panel Discussion: Communication with IXPs in Modern Era
Moderator: Paul Hoogsteder, i3D.net
Panellists: Theo Voss (Inter.link), Tom Strickx (Cloudflare)
The presentation is available at:
https://ripe89.ripe.net/presentations/102-RIPE89-Connect-Communication-with-IXPs-in-the-modern-era.pdf
Stavros Konstantaras introduced Paul Hoogsteder as the moderator for a panel discussion on communication with Internet exchanges. Paul outlined the development in exchanges’ communications since their inception, highlighting the vast increase in member numbers and the growing need for modern tools and methods to handle communication, particularly for issues like outages and maintenance.
Tom shared that Cloudflare’s systems were automated to handle outages and maintenance without much intervention. However, he highlighted that miscommunications occasionally occurred, especially during extended outages, which could affect connections with other members. While most notifications were helpful, he noted that the specifics varied by IXP, so more standardisation might be good.
Theo discussed the inconsistency in maintenance notifications across different IXPs, which posed challenges for organisations with a wide reach. Some IXPs were highly automated, while others lacked this capability, resulting in a lack of uniformity in communication practices.
Paul introduced the concept of using the maintnote standard for maintenance notifications, which would include details like start/end times and location. However, he noted that not all exchanges used consistent names in directories like PeeringDB, which complicated matters for large networks that operated globally.
Theo observed that a major European IXP showed discrepancies in its portal data, listing multiple live services even when only one was active, leading to confusion and unnecessary maintenance notifications. He emphasised that IXPs should ensure data accuracy, particularly for organisations relying on IXP databases.
Tom shared Cloudflare’s interest in receiving new member notifications, as they aimed to connect with as many networks as possible. However, he suggested that notifications could be more informative by including details like IP addresses and contact methods, rather than only stating that a new member had joined.
Theo expressed concerns about mailing lists, as they often contained irrelevant discussions while critical updates went unnoticed. He suggested that mailing lists were not always effective for operational communication, with messages frequently going unanswered. Inter.link preferred direct, responsive communication channels such as Telegram, where possible.
Tom supported having multiple mailing lists with active moderation, with separate lists for technical discussions, general chat and announcements. He added that ticketing systems should not be allowed to subscribe to mailing lists to avoid irrelevant responses clogging communications. He also advocated for SSO integration, which would streamline access management for companies using centralised identity providers. This setup could support both role-based and personal accounts, making it easier for organisations to manage their IXP interactions.
Theo highlighted the inaccuracy of contact data, stressing that IXPs should disclose operational contacts per GDPR compliance to avoid communication “black holes.” Many IXPs could improve by sharing updated contact information through CRMs or similar systems.
Paul questioned the relevance of notifications about new prefixes and downstream ASNs, suggesting they may no longer be necessary.
Tom criticised outdated practices, particularly in regions like the Asia-Pacific and Latin America, where manual updates were still common. He emphasised that Cloudflare disregarded these messages, especially in areas where RIR-based prefix filtering and RPKI should be in place. He proposed that IXPs in regions like Germany should enforce more modern policies.
Marco d’Itri, Seeweb, said that Italian IXPs have automated prefix filtering reports, which could be a best practice for other regions.
Michel Lanners from LU-CIX voiced frustration over large organisations’ support centres replying to all members on mailing lists, urging companies to train their teams to avoid unnecessary “reply-all” responses.
Stefan Funke, Inter.link, suggested that IXPs should offer participant lists in standard formats like JSON files, as DE-CIX did, to avoid unnecessary new member announcements. He also advised against role accounts for network operations centres (NOCs) on mailing lists.
Amedeo Beck Peccoz, ESpanix, clarified that ESpanix allowed role emails for mailing lists but restricted them for customer portal access due to NIS2 compliance.
Patrick Bussmann, Akamai, proposed eliminating mailing lists for maintenance notifications, advocating instead for automated systems with data that could be queried. He argued that mailing lists should be reserved for discussions, events and associations rather than operational updates.
Robert Lister, LONAP, acknowledged past efforts to standardise maintenance notifications, which had been difficult to implement globally. He mentioned that LONAP evolved from small discussion groups to large lists primarily used for announcements.
Radu-Adrian Feurdean, France-IX, asked for notes from this session and the general list of things people expected from communication with IXPs. Paul promised to follow up.
Marcos Sanz of DE-CIX agreed with Robert’s point and said that the format was what mattered. He opposed getting rid of mailing lists as these were more accessible for some people. REST endpoints were not a good solution for queries about when maintenance would occur. While there might be better methods for announcements, the main thing that they needed were specifications on how to announce this information.
Will van Gulik, representing RomandIX, highlighted the importance of clear communication about operational updates, particularly when automation was introduced in NOCs. He emphasized that informing members about these changes could help reduce traffic on mailing lists and improve overall efficiency. Will suggested establishing consensus for better communication within the community, advocating for the use of aggregated updates, and recommended that this discussion continue on the mailing list.
Stefan Funke from Inter.link, while not representing an IXP, suggested that these discussions could take place within EURO-IX working groups, as they might be more effective at addressing customer-facing concerns in collaboration with IXPs. Stefan stressed the potential benefits of a united approach among IXPs in tackling these challenges.
Stavros Konstantaras echoed this sentiment by advocating for the development of a more modern and standardised communication approach for IXPs. He proposed forming a closed user group or task force to establish new guidelines and praised the panel discussion for bringing these critical issues to light. Stavros encouraged the group to follow up with actionable steps.
Nurani Nimpuno of EURO-IX noted the diverse opinions on member communications within IXP communities. She said that EURO-IX valued discussions like these, often inviting input from IXP customers, but clarified that it did not impose communication standards on all IXPs. She encouraged participants to engage in their local IXP communities and to share their insights at EURO-IX events as well.
7. Closure
Stavros thanked the working group for their participation and concluded the session.