[ripe-list] Russia

In message <7A091DEE-27A3-4992-A3BC-840E5724D084 at rfc1035.com>, 
Jim Reid <jim at rfc1035.com> wrote:

>> On 15 Aug 2022, at 09:03, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
>> Yes, and as I think I've already made plain, I don't care about the official
>> response of RIPE.
>
>In that case, take your whines somewhere else. This list is for general
>discussion about RIPE matters.

Fine.  Show me the mailing list that I can use to reach a maximal number
of actual network operators within Europe.  Show me the European equavalent
and counterpart to NANOG.

I'll wait.

>But since you don't care about that, 
>you're clearly posting to the wrong place. And since you don't care 
>about RIPE (NCC)'s response, you've no reason to expect anyone here to 
>care about what you have to say.

You obviously care.

>> You really just aren't getting this are you?
>
>No, it's you who really isn't getting this. For starters, you don't seem 
>to understand the difference between RIPE and RIPE NCC. Or how to get 
>"policy" changed in these two fora. For RIPE, submit a policy proposal...

Has anything I've said indicate that I'm looking for a policy change from
RIPE?

I'm not.  That would be a fools quest.

>Third, you've given no indication why RIPE 
>(NCC)'s stance is unsatisfactory or what could be done to make it 
>better. For some definition of better.

I did not indicate that I felt it was.  You're projecting your own mental
framework onto what I actually have said.

What I actually did say is that the organs of internet governance are,
quite understandably, extremely limited in what they are able to do, even
in response to such unique a world-changing events as war.  And even the
EU is having a hard time finding a consensus response to the events in
Ukraine since late February.  But as I have also observed individual
companies can and have, on their own initiative, and without being forced
to do so by any authority, elected to curtail their business with Russia
since the beginning of the conflict.  If this fact is not apparent to
you, then please allow me to share with you some reference material:

https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/over-1000-companies-have-curtailed-operations-russia-some-remain

>If you have *constructive* proposals on what RIPE or the NCC could do in 
>addition to the current sanctions...

I do not.  I never said I did.  Like the EU, RIPE is limited to doing only
what can achieve unanimous or near unanimous consensus.  That's extremely
limiting.  But individual companies certainly have the freedom to go beyond
the bare minimum of what either RIPE or the EU would have them do.  (Over
a thousand companies that have done that are named at the URL given above.)
I have merely come here to suggest that more European companies act independently
and follow suit by going beyond what is mandated in the way of cutting ties to
Russia.

>IMO it's highly unlikely that a bunch of Internet geeks wagging their 
>finger at Mr. Putin and putting him on RIPE's naughty step will make any 
>difference to his ugly war in Ukraine. Let's face it, the international 
>sanctions that are hurting Russia and Putin's cronies haven't made a 
>difference.

Apparently, your news sources are different than mine.

>Rather {than} indulge in virtue-signalling...

Is that what the 1,000+ companies on the list above are doing?  Mere
virtue-signalling?

Since the start of the war, British Petroleum (BP) has elected to disconnect
itself entirely from the projects it was involved with in Russia.  Some
estimates put the cost to BP of this move at over $25 billion dollars.

That's a lot of virtue-signalling!

>I think all of us could do far more 
>good by helping refugees or contributing to relief efforts or putting 
>pressure on our politicians to put more pressure on the Kremlin to stop 
>the carnage. Or any combination of these three things.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, as I am to mine.


Regards,
rfg