[ncc-services-wg] 2007-01 Phase 2 Implementation: Direct Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC

Max,

you can charge your customers without any profit. This will be fair and clear. They will
pay exactly the amount was described in charging scheme and was approved by the GM.
But you want to have a profit. So you will have some risks. Relax, this situation is
usual.



Friday, May 29, 2009, 12:42:45 AM, you wrote:

MT> Hi Sander,

MT> this is a bad idea because of right now it is unpredictable at all. How
MT> much it will cost? 1 EUR? 10? 50? 100? 500? 1000? 1000000? There is a
MT> maximum payment a company can carry for their PI/AS. If the payment will
MT> be higher - they can't, and will have to return their objects. This sum
MT> is different for different companies. And if I offer NNN EUR - one said
MT> "no, thanks". If I can't even say how much payment can be - they scare,
MT> don't sign anything and at least will wait for charging scheme, making
MT> actualisation process much harder for RIPE NCC.

MT> The worst case if some of LIRs will take risks and charge users for for
MT> example 50 EUR, and then after got a bill with 100 EUR per user, went
MT> out of business in 1st quarter of 2010. Their customers will have to
MT> find out a new LIR, pay again for same year, and say, fairly, "what the
MT> f&&#%^#-heads sitting in this, hmmm, RIPE NCC!!!".

MT> P.S. When I became a LIR, I saw that yearly payment for ten years is
MT> ABOUT 1200 EUR. It doesn't really matter will it be 1108 or 1345 from
MT> year to year. But it really matter is it 1200 or 12000 or 120000.

MT> Sander Steffann wrote:
>> Hi Max,
>> 
>>>> A good idea would be to leave the exact amount out of the contract and
>>>> specify that the fee depends on the fee the RIPE NCC charges you. That
>>>> way you won't get into trouble when the fees change later.
>>>
>>> It is a VERY BAD idea. None of healthly minded financial people sign
>>> that ;)
>> 
>> Why? You get charged for the resources that those end users have. It is
>> not strange to charge them for that amount. There is no way for them to
>> keep those resources without paying the amount set in the charging
>> scheme by the RIPE NCC General Meeting. The same as an LIR who has to
>> pay the RIPE NCC membership fees set in the same charging scheme. You as
>> an LIR have signed a contract with the NCC without knowing the exact
>> amount that you will be charged next year. Why would an end user be any
>> different?
>> 
>> Something like "The yearly fee for Provider Independent resources is
>> determined by the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme. We will send you a bill for
>> the amount specified in that Charging Scheme". Your lawyers should be
>> able to put that in some acceptable language for in a contract :)
>> 
>> - Sander
>> 





--
Sergey