[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

Hey,

  Fair fees would probably be something along the lines of:

RIPE Annual operating costs collected in fees per resources;

5% from LIR memberships
2.5% per ASN registration
5% per IPv6 subnet (say per starting /56 or something like that)
??% per other resources utilized
REST% per IPv4 subnet (say per /24)

Given this kind of power however, there needs to be checks and balances 
RIPE just doesn't keep intentionally increasing annual operating costs 
(like govts do), so perhaps set a steady state annual budget increase of 
+5% (just slightly above inflation), and starting point based on last 3 
year average.

IPv4 should account for at least 67% of the budget being the most scarce 
and limited resource, ensuring efficient allocation of IPv4 addresses. 
Some big holder has issue with this and too tight budget to pay it? They 
are not using the IPv4 addresses in valuable enough use case to justify 
having them in that case. (Like those who hoard IPs in gigantic numbers, 
and don't use them at all, or maybe sell SEO spamming services, DOS 
services or proxies for like 1€/IP/Year ...)

IPv6 should have fees as well, otherwise it will just become similarly 
scarce as IPv4 given enough time.


Set like this it would not set European/RIPE Region Members at 
significant disadvantage compared to other regions. Total fees collected 
would be the same, but who pays how much and for what would differ 
significantly.
Infact, it would probably curb some forms of abuse in the RIPE region 
(aforementioned example is actually a real world case)


Just food for thought // my 2cents.


Br,
  Aleksi
  Magna Capax Finland Oy


On 16/04/2024 12.33, Firma KOMPEX wrote:
> we still don't understand each other.
>
> European Union = equality and access to value for all on the same terms.
>
> IP addresses were wrongly issued. This is a fact.
> RIPE was not well run from its inception.
> Addresses at the beginning of the uprising were distributed without thought
> and by the wrong people who made mistakes.
>
> Addresses are a social good.
> There can be no question of who should pay how much and how to pay LIR fees.
> it should be fixed.
> IP Addresses access policies must be regulated. because they have run out.
>
> Lack of changes that will release frozen IPs and unused IP addresses will
> end up with statutory regulations and the creation of a law that will impose
> this on us if we do not regulate it ourselves.
>
> The current IP address management policy is unethical.
> It is discriminatory to both the currently emerging companies and their
> users.
>
> if there is discrimination, and in this case 100% there is, then this should
> be equalized immediately.
>
> Best Regard's/ Pozdrawiam
> Gabriel Sulka
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon
> Lockhart
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 11:17 AM
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging
> Scheme 2025 Proposals
>
> On Tue Apr 16, 2024 at 09:51:13AM +0200, m.terzioglu at prebits.de wrote:
>> RIPE is non-profit organisation but the small LIRs are paying for the
>> bigger LIRs.
> No - everyone is paying an equal share of the costs of running an Internet
> *Registry*.
>
> Long gone are the days where you can get IP addresses from RIPE (in any
> sensibly usable quantities).
>
> RIPE is a Regional Internet *Registry*, not an IP shop or IP broker.
>
> Using the land analogy, you don't go to RIPE to buy land, you go to RIPE to
> register your (ownership/claim on) land. I don't know about other countries,
> but in the UK we have the UK Land Registry where you register your land. If
> you want to buy land, you go to an estate agent.  Whilst the UK Land
> Registry has a scale of registration costs based on the value (note, value
> not size) of land, it's not a very wide scale.
>
> If you want more IPv4 space, you don't go to RIPE, you go to an IP broker
> (or purchase it privately). Once you've done that, you register your claim
> to those
> IPv4 addresses with RIPE.
>
> I cannot think of any pricing model for RIPE which would result in RIPE
> suddenly having lots of IPv4 addresses which can be re-distributed to LIRs.
>
> Pretty much every proposal that has been posted over the last few weeks seem
> to have an undertone of "Look, here's some LIRs who have lots of IPv4 space.
> Wah, it's not fair, and I want some of it for cheap from RIPE".
>
> Simon
>
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