[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

Ok.
So you have your business, your business - your problems.
Please, do not try teach other people how to work if they do not ask you.
I do not understand your 5 cents for our business and how we use IPv6 and
IPv4.

If you do not need some resources - it's good for you now.
Time run - some will need changing.

If you have some another looks on IPv4 problem - make your own position!

BUT PLEASE? DO NOT TOLD US HOW TO DO THE BUSINESS!
All of us are not a babies.

>
>> How much IPv4 have you companies?
>
> My LIR have a single /22, and a single /24 for the IXP we drive, and
> I dont need more IPV4 because we already deployed dual stack IPV4/IPV6...
>
>
>> Use or not IPv6 - is the choice! Everyone have different businesses.  If
>> we need we will use it!!
>
> Wrong IPV6 = connectivity. In the world there are 8B people and at least
> 8B servers. Can you fit them in 32bit address space ? - No ! Can you fit
> them in 128bit address space ? - 18446744073709551617 TIMES ! There is
> nothing you can do with IPV4 and you can not with IPV6 - it is matter of
> knowedge !
>
>
>> Many LIR's need IPv4, but now some 'oldmans' want to make buisness on
>> free
>> resources. It is not clear business for me. Sorry, it is abnormal then
>> something that giving for free is resale for 10 euros per year.
>
> I am also network administrator of a access ISPs some of them have more
> than 6000 end users and fit in a single /22 (plus all the internal
> infrastructure) nobody cares for the IPV4, NAT IPV4 1:16 and give IPV6.
> If an end users want IPV4 +1 EURO (100 rublas) per month simple. Honestly
> I dont care about the IPV4 resources it is a part of the past for me, all
> plans of the networks are done on IPV6, IPV4 is just something we need to
> support for some more time. If someone have 12k - 15k to "buy" /24 IPV4
> or 100 Euro/mnth to rent such for me he have serious knowedge problems :)
> And big guilty for that have RIPE's flat charging scheme, it just work
> for the speculators. And no You dont need IPV4 to grow you need IPV6 to
> step in the future (if you plan to work that bussiness in long term)
>
>
>> Unfortunately I can see another way - divide Internet by paths and
>> redistribute resources again in this paths by new NCC or goverments -
>> would you like it?
>
> Government, politics, brokers, speculators and all "parasites" must stay
> away (or be pushed away) from the Internet ecosystem (my own point of
> view). Internet is for connecting people not to divide them. Internet
> resources are tight part of the network, _MUST_ be on use to the companies
> who work for the Internet and have to be available to everyone on the
> planet, also their uniquiness must be guaranteed !
>
>
>
> Ivaylo Josifov
> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> +359 52 969393
> Varna, Bulgaria
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
>
>>
>> Ivaylo, sorry but if you want count money in my pockets, let's count
>> your
>> too!
>> How much IPv4 have you companies?
>>
>> Use or not IPv6 - is the choice! Everyone have different businesses.  If
>> we need we will use it!!
>>
>> Many companies now need more IPv4 for they work or grow! It is not right
>> that some limit group of people was taken something and speculate it,
>> when
>> it is needed for other people.
>>
>> Many LIR's need IPv4, but now some 'oldmans' want to make buisness on
>> free
>> resources. It is not clear business for me. Sorry, it is abnormal then
>> something that giving for free is resale for 10 euros per year.
>>
>> If RIPE and NCC will not decide problem with IPv4 and AS it will make
>> much
>> more problems for all.
>>
>> Unfortunately I can see another way - divide Internet by paths and
>> redistribute resources again in this paths by new NCC or goverments -
>> would you like it?
>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>>>> It's wrong model with categories. ...
>>>
>>> So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
>>>
>>> From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and
>> your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
>>>
>>> I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to
>>> RIPE)
>> for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro / year
>> and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 years.
>> So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
>>>
>>> Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee for
>> all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members
>> (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your
>> resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of them
>> will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to you ?
>> What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you can make
>> a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht to keep
>> going with the flat
>>> model) ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ivaylo Josifov
>>> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
>>> +359 52 969393
>>> Varna, Bulgaria
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>>>> It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide
>> resources deficits.
>>>> It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource,
>>>> like
>> was the  land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in
>> their
>>>> rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
>>>>
>>>> WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not.
>>>> And
>>>> it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a
>> non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers
>> and
>>>>> strengthen or favor big proividers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many
>>>>> good
>>>>> offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize
>>>>> the
>>>>> sector by doing this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For example:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
>>>>>
>>>>> MF = Yearly Fee
>>>>>
>>>>> AF = Allocation Fee
>>>>>
>>>>> PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IPv4                      MF                         AF
>>>>>       PR
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> 16384                  1.875                    1.228.800
>>>>> %0,15
>>>>>
>>>>> 4096                     1.875                    307.200
>>>>> %0,6
>>>>>
>>>>> 256                        1.875                    19.200
>>>>> %9,7
>>>>>
>>>>> 16                          1.875                    1.200
>>>>>   %156
>>>>>
>>>>> 1                             1.875                    75
>>>>>         %2500
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the
>> smaller providers it is so dependant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical.
>>>>> What
>>>>> should be chosen, i am not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am
>>>>> sure
>> better than adviced schemes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation,
>>>>> you
>>>>> should provide some relif for small providers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account
>>>>> is
>> too
>>>>> much for small providers?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Murat TERZIOGLU
>>>>> PREBITS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bochumer Str. 20
>>>>>
>>>>> 44866 Bochum
>>>>>
>>>>> Deutschland
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Telefon: 0234/58825994
>>>>>
>>>>> Telefax: 0234/58825995
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  <http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
>>>>>
>>>>>  <mailto:info at prebits.de> info at prebits.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> USt-ID: DE315418902
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> Im Auftrag
>>>>> von
>> Martin Millnert via members-discuss
>>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43
>>>>> An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net>
>>>>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open
>>>>> House:
>>>>> Recording and Slides Available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I
>>>>> suspect
>>>>> it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to
>>>>> the
>> board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely
>> to be
>>>>> elected: Cost reductions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership
>> organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin Millnert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net
>>>>> <mailto:fergalc at ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Martin,
>>>>>
>>>>> The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on
>>>>> 25th
>>>>> of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on
>>>>> the
>>>>> draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these
>>>>> will be
>>>>> the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make
>> amendments.
>>>>> So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made
>>>>> by
>> the
>>>>> Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on
>>>>> the
>>>>> Charging Scheme):
>>>>> https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-board-meeting-minutes/
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss
>>>>> the
>> issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply
>> and
>>>>> provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Fergal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy at a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy at a-n-t.ru> >
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to ask add to vote variant D.
>>>>> All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per
>> year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net
>> <mailto:fergalc at ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE
>> NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as
>> statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The
>> Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this
>> week,
>>>>>>> and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> members in April.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The session recording and the slides from the presentation are
>> available
>>>>>>> at:
>>>>>>> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-2025/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the
>>>>>>> sections
>>>>>>> of the presentation and Q&A.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to
>> continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fergal Cunningham
>>>>>>> Head of Membership Engagement
>>>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open House Timestamps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham
>>>>>>> 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal
>>>>>>> Cunningham
>>>>>>> 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>>>> 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>>>> 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen
>>>>>>> 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip
>>>>>>> 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten
>>>>>>> 32:45
>> Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to
>>>>>> vote
>>>>>> at, during the upcoming AGM?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat.  We all
>> have to
>>>>>> deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that
>> RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone.  Yearly inflation as
>> released in
>>>>>> March 2024 was at 2.4% ?
>>>>>> https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Martin_______________________________________________
>>>>>> members-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>
>>>>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> ? ????????? ???????? ???????
>>>>> ??? "????? ??? ???????"
>>>>> +7(498)785-8-000 ???.
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>> ? ????????? ???????? ???????
>>>> ??? "????? ??? ???????"
>>>> +7(498)785-8-000 ???.
>>>> +7(495)940-92-11 ???.
>>>> +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> ? ????????? ???????? ???????
>> ??? "????? ??? ???????"
>> +7(498)785-8-000 ???.
>> +7(495)940-92-11 ???.
>> +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> ? ????????? ???????? ???????
>> ??? "????? ??? ???????"
>> +7(498)785-8-000 ???.
>> +7(495)940-92-11 ???.
>> +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
>>
>>
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>


-----------------------------
С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
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