[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

Your argument is flawed.

"in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005)"

If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 
employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million 
dollar budget...

On 4/11/24 9:53 AM, ivaylo wrote:
>
>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>> It's wrong model with categories. ...
>
> So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
>
> From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and 
> your
> company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
>
> I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to 
> RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro 
> / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 
> years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
>
> Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee 
> for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members 
> (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your 
> resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of 
> them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to 
> you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you 
> can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht 
> to keep going with the flat model) ?
>
>
> Ivaylo Josifov
> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> +359 52 969393
> Varna, Bulgaria
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy at a-n-t.ru wrote:
>
>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>> It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources
>> deficits.
>> It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like
>> was the  land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in 
>> their
>> rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
>>
>> WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or 
>> not. And
>> it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a
>>> non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small 
>>> providers and
>>> strengthen or favor big proividers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many 
>>> good
>>> offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to 
>>> monopolize the
>>> sector by doing this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
>>>
>>> MF = Yearly Fee
>>>
>>> AF = Allocation Fee
>>>
>>> PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IPv4                      MF                         AF
>>>       PR
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> 16384                  1.875 1.228.800          %0,15
>>>
>>> 4096                     1.875                    307.200
>>> %0,6
>>>
>>> 256                        1.875                    19.200
>>> %9,7
>>>
>>> 16                          1.875                    1.200
>>>   %156
>>>
>>> 1                             1.875                    75
>>>         %2500
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the
>>> smaller providers it is so dependant.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. 
>>> What
>>> should be chosen, i am not sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure
>>> better than adviced schemes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing 
>>> consolidation, you
>>> should provide some relif for small providers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account 
>>> is too
>>> much for small providers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
>>>
>>> Murat TERZIOGLU
>>> PREBITS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bochumer Str. 20
>>>
>>> 44866 Bochum
>>>
>>> Deutschland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Telefon: 0234/58825994
>>>
>>> Telefax: 0234/58825995
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  <http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
>>>
>>>  <mailto:info at prebits.de> info at prebits.de
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> USt-ID: DE315418902
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> Im Auftrag von
>>> Martin Millnert via members-discuss
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43
>>> An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net>
>>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
>>> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open 
>>> House:
>>> Recording and Slides Available
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I 
>>> suspect
>>> it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the
>>> board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely 
>>> to be
>>> elected: Cost reductions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership
>>> organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Martin Millnert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net
>>> <mailto:fergalc at ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Martin,
>>>
>>> The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 
>>> 25th
>>> of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback 
>>> on the
>>> draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these 
>>> will be
>>> the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make 
>>> amendments.
>>> So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made 
>>> by the
>>> Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 
>>> on the
>>> Charging Scheme):
>>> https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-board-meeting-minutes/ 
>>>
>>>
>>> And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the
>>> issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course 
>>> reply and
>>> provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Fergal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy at a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy at a-n-t.ru> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> I want to ask add to vote variant D.
>>> All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year
>>> (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc at ripe.net
>>>>> <mailto:fergalc at ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about 
>>>>> the
>>>>> RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC
>>>>> staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements
>>>>> from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we 
>>>>> are
>>>>> operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The
>>>>> Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this
>>>>> week,
>>>>> and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward 
>>>>> to the
>>>>> members in April.
>>>>>
>>>>> The session recording and the slides from the presentation are
>>>>> available
>>>>> at:
>>>>> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-2025/ 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the 
>>>>> sections
>>>>> of the presentation and Q&A.
>>>>>
>>>>> We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week 
>>>>> and
>>>>> the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to
>>>>> continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fergal Cunningham
>>>>> Head of Membership Engagement
>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>
>>>>> Open House Timestamps
>>>>>
>>>>> 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham
>>>>> 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal 
>>>>> Cunningham
>>>>> 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>> 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>> 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen
>>>>> 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip
>>>>> 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten
>>>>> 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
>>>>
>>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>>
>>>> What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to 
>>>> vote
>>>> at, during the upcoming AGM?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of 
>>>> the
>>>> costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have
>>>> to
>>>> deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE
>>>> does not have to fight inflation alone.  Yearly inflation as 
>>>> released in
>>>> March 2024 was at 2.4% ?
>>>> https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Martin_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
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