[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

As a small LIR, i would like to see something of the following per LIR 
(Staying with 1 vote per lir, as it is now)

- Base Membership Fee (something moderate like 1000 Euro/Year) - purely 
used for running the Registry/DB and the associated infrastructure.

- Then small "additional" fee based onhow many resources are allocated 
to a LIR. (0 if below a /19, More if above)

This would reflect the fact that every lir makes use of the registry/db 
to some extent.

ipe-members at sebastian-graf.at

Furthermore as a second idea i would also like to see that many of the 
"extra" expenses incured by the RipeNCC are moved to a second legal 
entidy that organisations can join and contribute to, if they are 
interested.

Alternativly this could also be done with a second budget, not tied to 
the registery (and therefore not included in the base fee). For this i 
would propose just tiers that organisations can pick up (something like 
bronze/silver/gold/platinum) with different pricing.

This would be:

- In person Training/Events

- Useful projects like Atlas,...

- Community funding of external projects.

A really "amazing" thing for the other budget/entidy would be if it 
implemented a yearly (or bi-yearly) vote, for members on how much (in 
percent of their contribution) should be spent on what project. Helping 
drive development in areas that are useful.


Kind Regards


On 4/1/24 3:28 PM, Daniel Pearson wrote:
> I'm fine with paying a simple flat fee of 0.1 € per v4 address per 
> year if that means one IPv4 Equals one vote.
>
> If I pay more, then my vote counts for more, plain and simple.
>
> If you don't think that will come to pass, then you don't understand 
> the magnitude of politics and money as a driving force.
>
> Daniel~
>
> On 4/1/24 08:06, Mihail Fedorov wrote:
>> Which, by strange coincidence, almost identical to simple flat fee of 
>> 0.1 € per v4 address per year.
>>
>> The only difference is that owner of single /24 can pay 25 € per year 
>> and owner of /16 - 6375 € without steps or limitations required.
>>
>> Still giving RIPE approx 60 mil budget together.
>>
>> Literally everyone benefits - including companies that actually need 
>> a lot of addresses and currently buying them on aftermarket terribly 
>> overpriced.
>>
>>> On 1 Apr 2024, at 15:38, ivaylo <ivaylo at bglans.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> The subject of this discussion go a lot ofside. I dont know why you 
>>> bloat the theme (maybe it is intensionly ?) leading it to IPV4 
>>> holding. Our main focus _SHOULD_ be RIPE budget and financing + 
>>> sustainabla operation in the next year and in the future at all. 
>>> This of course is related with the members fee.
>>>
>>> I done a little research and calculations, to tune my initial 
>>> propousal so: By IANA public documents current delegated resources 
>>> to RIPE are:
>>>
>>> 86016     IPV4 /19 blocks
>>> 66624     IPV6 /27 blocks
>>> 42882     ASN
>>>
>>> If we have a hard coded limits for each LIR, equal steps up, and 
>>> member fee of 750 EURO per year, each LIR can hold up to:
>>>
>>> 1 x /19 IPV4 BLOCK (sumary = 32 x /24 networks)
>>> 1 x /27 IPV6 BLOCK (sumary = 32 x /32 networks)
>>> 16 ASN numbers
>>>
>>> After pass one of the above parameters even with one /24 IPV4, /32 
>>> IPV6, or ASN, +750 euro (1500 euro RIPE fee) up to the next 
>>> proporcional limit:
>>>
>>> 2 x /19 IPV4 BLOCK (sumary = 64 x /24 networks)
>>> 2 x /27 IPV6 BLOCK (sumary = 64 x /32 networks)
>>> 32 ASN numbers
>>>
>>> and so on...
>>>
>>> This will generate 64 512 000 euros annual budget for RIPE which is 
>>> absolutely enough for normal operations in each of the next 10 
>>> years, without need to increse members fee each year.
>>>
>>> If somebody is afraid, that other RIRs will not keep going with RIPE 
>>> fees, and there will be posibly leave of the big resource holders, 
>>> keep in mind that all small members from the other RIRs will move to 
>>> RIPE. Also good luck moving to ARIN db mess, the risk to lost route 
>>> of your prefixes is nearly 90%.
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> Off topic: About IPV4/IPV6 resources, it is imposible to create kind 
>>> of ipv4 adress space extension. Many hardware do lookup over the ip 
>>> header, it is not only software related. Even somebody develope a 
>>> public standart about that, will take decades before all replacing 
>>> equipment all over the world and another decades all to be workable. 
>>> We have working IPV6, right now more than 52% has IPV6 connectivity. 
>>> Biggest EU access operator already
>>> give dual stack IPV4/IPV6 even to their end users, and activlly 
>>> deploy IPV6 stack into their networks. It is much more cheaper in 
>>> long perspective than to buy/rent IPV4 (NAT/proxy your 
>>> clients/services over IPV4 and give them IPV6 real addresses). After 
>>> 2-3 years the core of the Internet will be over IPV6, yes we will 
>>> need to support IPV4 for the next 10-15 years to provide backward 
>>> connectivity, but it is a dead end. All who thinks they will do a 
>>> big profit from IPV4 adresses they hold, do seriously mistake in 
>>> their logic, but anyway it is their problem. Those who dont 
>>> implement IPV6 because "yay it is so scary and not working" in one 
>>> moment will have to do this fast without experience, because will 
>>> have seroius troubles with IPV4 connectivity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ivaylo Josifov
>>> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
>>> +359 52 969393
>>> Varna, Bulgaria
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> members-discuss at ripe.net
>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
>>> Unsubscribe: 
>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net
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