[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

Well said. I agree with this.

---
Regards,
Paul Lewis.

On 2023-03-09 11:21, mail at mys.co.uk wrote:

> Hello
> 
> Tiered membership cost structures should be the only options put 
> forward for a vote as this is the only viable and sustainable way 
> forward.
> 
> The current structure is rapidly pushing up costs for members with XS/S 
> allocations making it unsustainable and RIPE can not afford to continue 
> with the decreasing revenue this model achieves.
> 
> Is is a no-brainer for LIRs with multiple accounts to amalgamate their 
> positions into one LIR account and that is not sustainable under the 
> current pricing structure. It seems reasonable to me that LIR 
> membership costs should be calculated pro-rata on the number of 
> resources held by each LIR, albeit with a base membership cost of say 
> EUR500 per LIR with a /22 or less. Each additional /22 should be costed 
> on the total amount of /22's within RIPE divided by the required income 
> budget set by RIPE for the following year.
> 
> For the sake of LIRs with small or extra small resources, and also for 
> the sustainability of RIPE itself, RIPE can not in my view, even risk 
> the option of continuing with the current "Option 1" model.
> 
> Best
> Mike
> 
> On 8 Mar 2023, at 21:46, Lukasz Jarosz <lukasz at jarosz.pl> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I also think, that before so sever fee increases are implemented, 
> budget should be reconsidered. I want to point out that according to
> "RIPE NCC Activity Plan and Budget 2023" ( 
> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation 
> ) RIPE is spending as much money for these extracurricular activities 
> as for maintaining registry.
> Especially with some of our members suffering from war and other 
> natural disasters, RIPE shouldn't be budgeting to increase investments, 
> but only for sustaining required services.
> 
> Best regards,
> Lukasz Jarosz
> 
>> Wiadomość napisana przez Kaj Niemi <kajtzu at basen.net> w dniu 
>> 07.03.2023, o godz. 12:02:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Thanks, the email and the excel made for some quite interesting 
>> reading. There are a few other reasonable options which were not 
>> listed on the slide deck from 2021 nor in your email.
>> 
>> An obvious option would be to reduce budgeted RIPE NCC expenditure to 
>> the level of forecasted revenue. This is what most normal companies, 
>> without assured funding, must do.
>> 
>> Another option would be to charge LIRs for the services they use. With 
>> this I do not mean IP addresses and ASNs that were mentioned in your 
>> model but for everything. Someone who is using only basic LIR services 
>> (IP/ASN assignments, reverse name services) would not have to pay for 
>> "value-added services" (VAS).
>> 
>> With VAS I mean RIPE NCC's varied extracurricular activities such as 
>> outreach, education programs and software development that have 
>> expanded considerably over the years and have undoubtedly been of some 
>> value to some of its members. Still, many of the same roles/functions 
>> are also conducted by membership organizations, NOGs, and independent 
>> software developers. Imposition of the costs of such programs on 
>> members, who either don't benefit from or do not use them, equates the 
>> charging model functioning mostly as an ATM to finance the ambitions 
>> and initiatives of the RIPE NCC leadership and a small group of active 
>> advocates.
>> 
>> Some of us would be happy with a Big Mac meal rather than the 
>> expensive all you can eat seafood buffet 😉
>> 
>> Kaj
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ncc-announce <ncc-announce-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon 
>> Jan Haytink
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:35
>> To: ncc-announce at ripe.net
>> Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 
>> 2024
>> 
>> Dear RIPE NCC members,
>> 
>> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership 
>> in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to 
>> carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General 
>> Meeting (GM) May 2023.
>> 
>> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed 
>> our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging 
>> scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE 
>> NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were 
>> strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for 
>> a category-based model that would charge based on the number of 
>> resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for 
>> all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, 
>> and to charge a fee for transfers.
>> 
>> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of 
>> the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on 
>> this matter together with the membership.
>> 
>> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion 
>> on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR 
>> accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the 
>> coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be 
>> reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our 
>> charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain 
>> our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best 
>> suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing 
>> model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be 
>> required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model 
>> that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of 
>> the RIPE NCC's members.
>> 
>> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members 
>> to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to 
>> review. These models can be summarised as:
>> 
>> Model 1: A "one-LIR, one-fee" model based on the current RIPE NCC 
>> Charging Scheme 2023  that also charges for independent resources, 
>> ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & 
>> Acquisitions.
>> 
>> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR 
>> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges 
>> for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business 
>> structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>> 
>> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own 
>> situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to 
>> calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is 
>> important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for 
>> each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the 
>> discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following 
>> consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would 
>> greatly help to arrive at a good model.
>> 
>> You can download the Excel sheet from:
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fmember-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p27R1eIR06WMjapHci7lCcjUxNBvlnExmGvJr6XesOA%3D&reserved=0
>> 
>> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme 
>> in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive 
>> Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging 
>> schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 
>> 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme 
>> model to be used in the coming years.
>> 
>> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on 
>> the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 
>> 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the 
>> Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. 
>> Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not 
>> be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
>> 
>> The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0
>> 
>> I look forward to your input.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Simon Jan Haytink
>> Finance Director
>> RIPE NCC
>> 
>> Summary
>> 
>> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging 
>> Scheme model
>> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
>> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
>> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
>> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted 
>> on by members
>> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
>> 
>> References
>> 
>> Open House and Survey Results
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0
>> 
>> Presentation at General Meeting
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0
>> 
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