[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

Hi Simon,

In the current form there is no way that I can support Model 2 but I also
have significant problems with Model 1 and don't want to support it either.
I like the idea but the categories have to be a lot more sensible or
alternatively don't use categories at all and purely do it based on the
amount of IP space.

I have listed my main issues with Model 1 and Model 2 below.

Model 1:
1) Having a transfer fee of €1k is ludicrous in my opinion. I think this
fee should be removed along with the M&A fee, but I can accept it if they
are both €50.
2) Having a sign up fee and a separate new membership fee doesn't make any
sense to me, there should just be one setup fee.

Model 2:
1) The largest category is too small. It doesn't make sense that an org
with a /16 would get charged the same amount as one of the giant ISPs with
over a /8 worth of IPv4 space.
2) With regards to the category prices, it doesn't make sense that the
largest ISPs would just pay as much as 8 members who received a /22 or 16
members who received a /24.
3) With regards to PI/ASN, they should be left outside of any category
calculations and just have the €50 fixed fee.
4) Same as issue 1 with model 1, the transfer fee is ludicrous.

While not one of my main objections, I would also prefer to only see the
charge for ASNs applied to 16-bit ASNs to discourage use of 16-bit ASNs
when there is no real need for them.
I feel like this would be helpful because I have seen quite a few
questionable new 16-bit ASN assignments while realistically we are not
running out of 32-bit ASNs anytime soon.

-Cynthia

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 10:43 AM Simon Jan Haytink <simon at ripe.net> wrote:

> Dear RIPE NCC members,
>
> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in
> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out
> that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May
> 2023.
>
> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our
> members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme
> model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The
> outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases
> made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based
> model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member.
> A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or
> assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for
> transfers.
>
> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the
> war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter
> together with the membership.
>
> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on
> the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR
> accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the
> coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be
> reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our
> charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our
> operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to
> cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would
> mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our
> ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be
> sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s
> members.
>
> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to
> assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review.
> These models can be summarised as:
>
> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging
> Scheme 2023  that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers
> and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>
> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR
> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for
> independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure
> such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>
> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation,
> we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees
> you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware
> that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and
> would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to
> review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving
> input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.
>
> You can download the Excel sheet from:
>
> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx
>
> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in
> March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board
> will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the
> membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of
> that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming
> years.
>
> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the
> Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26
> April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when
> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after
> this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in
> the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
>
> The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations
>
> I look forward to your input.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Simon Jan Haytink
> Finance Director
> RIPE NCC
>
> Summary
>
> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme
> model
> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by
> members
> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
>
> References
>
> Open House and Survey Results
>
> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles
>
> Presentation at General Meeting
>
> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf
>
>
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