[members-discuss] Administrative procedures within RIPE NCC: Any way to soften it ?

Dear Clément,

you are not the first.

There are a lot of complaints RIPE NCC internal procedures are 
bureaucratic, slow and unclear.

It is not logic why you need to open a new LIR and then transfer you own 
resources to your own second LIR. May be to earn another 2х2000 EUR 
start-up fee? Continue to use ("fix") existing LIR is more logical, as 
in case of any historic issues with old LIR (like forged documents, 
problems with the companies merge or similar) resources can be 
deregistered or moved to some other party. If it was moved out - it is 
not possible anymore.

In case of any transfer, hostmasters should be 100% sure LIR loosing 
address space is up to date, correct and healthly doing that transfer. 
But if it is - why to push to open another LIR?

I think the root of the problem is RIPE is not enough involved in RIPE 
NCC internal processes. We (as RIPE) should have more influence in RIPE 
NCC procedures and it's development. Please support me anyone if I'm right.

06.07.20 16:15, Clement Cavadore пише:
> Dear members,
> 
> I wanted to share my recent experience regarding the painful
> administrative & bureaucratic procedures within RIPE NCC, and start a
> discussion with you, in order to see if some of you feel the same, and,
> if its the case, if we could make it evolve in order to enhance the
> "customer experience" :-).
> 
> TL;DR: I feel that the due diligence procedures at RIPE NCC are too
> strict, and that they should be a bit more human when having to deal
> with administrative changes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From my own experience, here is what happenned to me:
> 
> One of my customer (let's call them A) has been a member for years, and
> it has been acquired/reorganized multiple times before when I started
> to work with him. As a responsible (new) LIR admin, I wanted to make
> its administrative status relevant with their real situation.
> That was a big mistake!
> While I can admit that the juridic situation was quite complex, we had
> to spend months in exchanging documents in order to justify every move,
> but in the end, the only option that we had, was to open a new LIR, and
> move its resources from the "legacy LIR" to the new one. We decided at
> some time, that it was not worth to waste more time than already done,
> so we did that, and A' was born (and we are going to move A resources
> to A').
> 
> 
> ... but a few months later: Same player play again !
> Another customer of mine (B, which is a sister company of A), needed
> its membership to be updated, as their original structure has been
> terminated (integrated in another company, partial merge, rename etc).
> => Well, after weeks of legal documents exchange, we were told by the
> RIPE NCC that all the justifications have been verified, and that was
> we were initially asking was OK... BUT... that they couldn't simply
> change the name of its LIR, because it has not been a full
> acquisition. The only valid/useable option would be to make B become a
> member on its own, and to transfer from the former LIR to that shiny
> new LIR (other option was to move the resources in A' and make
> assignations for B, but that is not an option for the end user's org).
> 
> I have been talking with others members among my contacts, and they all
> say that having to deal with RIPE NCC on administrative topics is a
> pain in the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> My question is simple:
> 1- Is there some ways to make RIPE NCC a bit more flexible, when the
> situation allows it?
> 
> 2- For my particular case: Given that the "historic LIRs" from A & B
> only had some transferable resources, and given the fact that there
> were clear justification: Why not simply allowing a LIR name change?
> 
> 
> I cannot believe that the only option in order to sort out
> administrative mess, is to open new membership and terminate older
> membership. I know that RIPE NCC's income will lower in the next
> future, due to LIR consolidation, but at the moment, I am a bit feeling
> that the rigid procedures are only a mean for RIPE NCC to get new
> opening fee and double billing for new members/future closed members.
> 
> 
> For the RIPE NCC staff: I bet you could easily find which members I am
> talking about (and if not, I can share the ticket numbers in private).
> I can understand that your procedures have to be a bit strict in order
> to avoid resources Hijacks/illegal transfers, but when the situations
> seems understandable and correct, I'd like to see you exercise good
> judgment when it seems valid justifications.
> 
> I just do not want to disclose the member's name publicly, as they
> didn't ask me to write this email. But since I am managing multiple
> LIRs, I thought it would be interesting to deal that topic on the
> membership level. If you have some experiences to share, go ahead !
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading until the end !
>