[members-discuss] BLACK FRIDAY IPv4 transfer

There is no easy way or way with one-two steps to fix current mess with 
IPV4 address space. There must be done a lot of things and a lot of 
changes. Disabling lir to lir ipv4 transfers without changing charging 
scheme will lead to nothing (only when LIRs pays on basis for consumed 
resources will be pushed to return back unused and such not very well 
formed scheme was refused last year on GM voting !)

So there is no point to discuss again ways to change policies and rules 
about returning and recycling IPV4. I do not beleave or see way that to 
happen, not because it is not right or cant be happen, because it have to 
be voted on GM and must be accepted, which seems most of LIRs do not want 
for any reason.

So lets concentrate on posible ways... And I can see only one - pushing 
IPV6 deploy and drasticaly increasing services and traffik over IPV6.

1. The idea with exchanges and contet providers to stop IPV4 traffik is 
not bad :) , but is absolutely unreal. It is enough only google (yourube) 
to start running only on IPV6 and IPV4 will be totaly abandoned in ONE 
month :) + all brokers/spekulators will drink cold water with all money 
they spend buying IPV4 in the past :)

2. Maybe something more realistic RIPE to make 10%-20% discount from 
yearly tax for all LIRs who deploy IPV6. There can be made prety good 
criteries to show that the LIR really deploy IPV6 , not just request it 
from RIPE.



Ivaylo Josifov
Varteh LTD
Varna, Bulgaria




On Fri, 29 Nov 2019, NOC wrote:

> Well, if you're so picky about words...
> OK, not "nobody", rephrase to "Very few".
> 
> What is RIPE ?
>
>       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIPE
>       R?seaux IP Europ?ens (RIPE, French for "European IP Networks") is a
>       forum open to all parties with an interest in the technical
>       development of the Internet. The RIPE community?s objective is to
>       ensure that the administrative and technical coordination
>       necessary to maintain and develop the Internet continues.
> 
> So, it`s all of us.
> And so anyone, who don`t agree or wants to change something goes to RIPE
> meeting and tell it there.
> 
> Can I ask ? Anyone who wrote "+1" and/or "I agree" in previous letters, was
> on RIPE`s meeting ?
> I think the answer will be "NO".
> 
> All I want to say is that there is a reason why RIPE made such a decision.
> And if it was adopted in this way, then no one suggested a different way.
> 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> We have received a request from 185.141.5.88 for the removal of your
> email address, "noc at mega-net.ru" from the members-discuss at ripe.net
> 
> Very funny. Good luck o you 185.141.5.88.
> 
> ? ?????????? ??????????? :: With best regards,
> ??????? ???????? :: Dmitry Nikolaev
> 
> On 29.11.2019 15:57, Lutz Donnerhacke wrote:
>
>       I believe RIPE NCC can disprove your claim by listing IPv4
>       resources which were given back by (still existing) LIRs in the
>       past.
>
>       And yes, I also support forcing takeback of resources by RIPE
>       (i.e. by revoking rPKI certs) if they are sold to a different
>       party.
>
>        
>
>       Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> Im
>       Auftrag von NOC
>       Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2019 13:50
>       An: members-discuss at ripe.net
>       Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] BLACK FRIDAY IPv4 transfer
> 
>  
> 
> Hello,
> 
> At the past it was the main idea, that if you don`t use IP`s you
> return them back to RIPE.
> But, in such case, NOBODY return IP`s back.
> Everyone thinks "we can use them later" OR "what we will do if we need
> IP`s later and we already returned them".
> Especially now, when no IP`s avail anymore. Who will return ? Ofc
> NOBODY.
> 
> I think that it`s the MAIN REASON why RIPE permit selling when IPv4 is
> over.
> Bc now, at least somehow, organizations, who need IP`s can receive
> them. It's better than nothing.
> 
> I DON`T tell that I`am not agree with you. I AGREE with you, bc I also
> don`t like situation with selling.
> But I just can understand RIPE`s  decision.
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ? ?????????? ??????????? :: With best regards,
> 
> ??????? ???????? :: Dmitry Nikolaev
> 
>  
> 
> On 29.11.2019 14:35, noc wrote:
>
>       It's been a while that I am reading the messages and not
>       answering. 
> 
> But in my opinion, this deserves to be answered. 
> 
>  
> 
> Almost all brokers/operators here try to sell something that
> they don't own.
> 
>  
> 
> You guys should put something on your heads: the ips don't
> belong to you. They are NOT yours!
> 
> The IPs belong to RIPE and RIPE assign you a range for you to
> use.
> 
>  
> 
> The RIPE transfer was never meant to be used to make profit. It
> was created to transfer ips between LIRs that need IPs and LIRs
> that don't need IPs.
> 
>  
> 
> I have seen a lot of "we sell ips from RIPE, ARIN, etc...". You
> don't sell them. You can't sell something that don't belong to
> you. Don't you?
> 
>  
> 
> This topic seriously needs to be handled by RIPE. 
> 
> In my opinion, the IP ranges that are on IP transfers should be
> taken back by RIPE and given to LIRs in need.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Enviado a partir do meu smartphone Samsung Galaxy.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -------- Mensagem original --------
> 
> De : Stuart Willet <stu at safehosts.co.uk>
> 
> Data: 29/11/19 12:05 (GMT+01:00)
> 
> Para: Kseniya Sokol <ksyu at netassist.ua>,
> members-discuss at ripe.net
> 
> Assunto: Re: [members-discuss] BLACK FRIDAY IPv4 transfer
> 
>  
> 
> Are you seriously trying to sell IPv4 space via the members
> discuss mailing list, which is being used to discuss the
> underhand tactics of people just like you?
> 
> I think it's time I pulled out of the mailing list.All I have
> seen is decent people raise decent points only to be shot down
> and taken over by Spamy IPv4 brokers.
> 
> Congratulations once more RIPE for not being able to organise a
> proverbial drink up in a brewery.
> 
> /me left
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]
> On Behalf Of Kseniya Sokol
> Sent: 29 November 2019 10:28
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] BLACK FRIDAY IPv4 transfer
> 
> Hi
> So here it becomes the same market, and the same propositions as
> you start to condemned in discussion
>   "RIPE DB T&C violation by brokers"
> We also do have a lot of IP addresses and price is not to high.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 29.11.2019 12:05, Hassan Dirsanji ?????:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > An IPv4 block /19 with is a PI allocation available for
> immediate transfer.
> > Please let me know if you are interested in.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 13:11 Pablo Serrano
> <info at pabloserrano.net
> > <mailto:info at pabloserrano.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     50$ per ip and free hugs it's a good BF!
> >
> >     Nikolay Gorstkin wrote on 2019-11-29 10:32:
> >      > :))
> >      > Yeah!! This morning I heard a price of $ 40 / per
> address :)
> >      > Anti-BF !
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >> 29 ????. 2019 ?., ? 12:27, Bunea Petru <suport at bunea.eu
> >     <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> ???????(?):
> >      >>
> >      >> I think we can tell for sure this is a reverse Black
> Friday.
> >     Maybe a first in BF history.
> >      >>
> >      >> Sent from my iPhone
> >      >>
> >      >>> On 29 Nov 2019, at 11:24, Sergey Myasoedov
> <kaa at net-art.cz
> >     <mailto:kaa at net-art.cz>> wrote:
> >      >>>
> >      >>>
> >      >>> I was waiting for such message here, in m-d list!
> >      >>>
> >      >>>
> >      >>>> On 29 Nov 2019, at 09:42, Jos? Manuel Giner
> <jm at ginernet.com
> >     <mailto:jm at ginernet.com>> wrote:
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> Hello,
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> we're interested to buy (full-transfer) a /22,
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> If anybody is interested to sell us with a special
> price,
> >     please contact me with the proposal details.
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> Thanks.
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> --
> >      >>>> Jos? Manuel Giner
> >      >>>> https://ginernet.com
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>>
> >      >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >      >>
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> 
> --
> ? ?????????, ?????? ?????
> 
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