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[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Peter Linder
peter at fiberdirekt.se
Mon May 14 16:10:55 CEST 2018
The link to unsubcribe you (valid for me also of course) is in every email from you is posted to the list if you reply to any list email. I'm guessing somebody's email client, antivirus program, spam filter etc followed the link? Den 2018-05-14 kl. 15:24, skrev Adrian Bolster: > > Go on then… who tried to unsubscribe me? > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf > Of *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 13:50 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Well, use your email address and reset it :) > > On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > unsubscribe link need a password !! > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > <mailto:daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com> > <mailto:ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Hi there, > > This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe link at the > bottom of these emails that is associated with your email address! > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > Please remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!! > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of > *Daniel Pearson > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25 > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > I concur, there is no legal leg to stand on to force space to > be returned. It just cannot happen, end period. Thinking about > it is nothing but a fantasy and we live in reality. > > What your asking is no different than having a complete > stranger walk up to your house, admire your big empty back > yard, demand that you give it to them because they want to > build a house in your neighborhood and well, you don't use > your backyard so why can't they have it for free? > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote: > > But there is no point in arguing this. It has been > discussed over and over: > > It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because > you want it for free or at a very low cost. Current > holders have a good legal ground to refuse. Even if it was > somehow reclaimed on a large scale, it would last for a > year or so? Remember, most addresses would need to go to > countries with large populations where Internet is not > built up like it is in Europe or North America. Then what? > Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to last a few more > years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not less. > > Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will > allocate to you. I know this sucks, especially in poorer > countries. But that is probably the only way your business > is going to happen, in the short term. An alternative > would be to bother the IETF to release their reserved > space but that is probably a waste of time (never mind > de-bogonizing it). > > Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of > cost. It will eventually start hurting more, and in > different ways. There are ways to prepare for that, > including making sure v6 is enabled and functioning on > everything you make. > > /Peter > > Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell: > > No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why > allow a LLR to retain address space that they may > never have used. > > *From:*members-discuss > [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On Behalf > Of *William > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32 > *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer > (in)security > > But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a > look at your history (or here in Croatia) - you want > to do the same, steal from some parts of the society > ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends > horribly wrong. > > This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian > suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / > Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for > some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP > usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM > <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider > the fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 > blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay > a dime for them. > > In the light of events, one /8, respecting the > 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to > over 16.000 LIR accounts! > > And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a > lot of business compared to one company that holds > a /8 :) > > Thanks > > — > > > imap://daniel%40knownhost%[email protected]:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> / > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / > +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov > <alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv>> wrote: > > Bruno has it’s point. > > Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, > but only ICANN has the power to do so. > > I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather > say as all IP space is rented (owning a number > isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever > it is legacy or current should be re-audited > to justify the reason of use. > > > -- > Alex Lobachov > Telenet, sia > Network Systems Engineer > LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll > E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv> > Skype: alxl__ > Direct office: +371 67886224 > Office: +371 67711111 > > *From:*Bruno Carvalho > <mailto:bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> > > *Sent:*Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM > > *To:*members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > William, > > Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was > introduced. And everyone should be regulated > (pre-RIR or not). > > Is the same has if you own a car from back the > traffic laws (1800 years?). If you drive it > now, you have to comply with all the laws that > regulate the sector. > Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't > have to comply with the actual regulations? > > If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 > and 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or > bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy > and not used. > > --- > > Image removed by sender. XRV > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt <http://xrv.pt>) | > +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment before > printing this email > > > > Image removed by sender. Visit our website > <https://www.xrv.pt/> > Image removed by sender. Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>Image > removed by sender. Twitter > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: > > These are legacy. They are not RIR business. > > No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is > plainly wrong, they never owned them, this > is pre-RIR space), they are private property. > > Taking them is theft and nothing else, no > matter how you phrase it. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - > Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- No RIPE > LIR? Still read this email for some > reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for > BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't > hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea > TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > I agree, > > There are tens of /8's available, some > of them even unannounced. For example > there are lots of entities which if > they would gave up (even partially) of > their unused blocks, it would push the > IPv4 complete exaustion to 2020+. > > Thanks, > > Petru > > — > > > <email-signature.jpg> > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu > <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>/ +40752481282 > <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM*/ DATACENTER / APP > DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu > <http://www.bunea.eu/>/ +40745495495 > <tel:+40745495495> > > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, > Janarthanan Sundaram > <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl > <mailto:j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>> > wrote: > > I think we should prioritize on on > point two: what to do with unused > blocks. > > > *Van:* members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > *Namens *Bruno Carvalho > *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 > *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] > VL: IP transfer (in)security > > This discussion is quite > interesting. But i think it should > be discussed between all RiRs. Not > only for RIPE. > When we look at big companies, > like Microsoft, and do a simple > scan of their assigned IP > ranges... we found some /14 and > several /16 unassigned/unused ranges. > > > Personnally, i think we should > focus on 2 main things: > > > - Improve IPv6 implementation all > over the territory (i know this is > painfull for many LIRs because it > implies additional work and > purchase of new equipments. But > let's face it. We are in 2018. If > an equipment doesn't support IPv6, > it's very obsolete and not > performant). > > > - Check with the other RiRs what > would be the best to do with those > big unused ranges that are owned > by companies that don't use them. > > > Regards > > > > > --- > > <blocked.gif> > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt > <http://xrv.pt/>) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment > before printing this email > > > > > > > <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/> > <blocked.gif> > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > > On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello > > Not needed IP = The addressese > company is ready to sell for a > small profit 😊 ? This is > probably good indication that > its not used anymore. One > option is to automatically > block all and any IP > transaction which does not > involve transaction of the > whole company/business. It is > a question that can IP be a > commodity. Now its a commodity > that is getting more rare by > the year. Maybe IP should be > considered an jointly owned > part of infrastructure which > is deployed by need basis. > (Socialistic way) > > Other option is to start to > take money per IP. This would > instantly mean that everyone > would look up to own ip > spaces. Let say it would cost > 1 euro / year for a IP it > would only be approx 1000 > euros for the smallest > allocation. Someone with 10 > million IP addressese are > likely to happily pay for it > fi they are in use, but if > they are not i would think > they would be handed back. > (Capitalistic way) > > One option is also to go with > the current system because > internet is working so its not > horribly wrong at the moment > either. > > One interesting this is tho > that old LIR:s are likely to > wanting to keep these things > unchanged. New LIR:s are more > likely to want changes as this > is heavily favoring old LIR:s. > And every year a > proportionally larger part > will be the ones with few IP:s > and same vote than the one > with alot of IP:s and also > only 1 vote. > > Br. Hans > > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet > Lähetetty: maanantai 14. > toukokuuta 2018 10.34 > Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi > <mailto:pdonner at znak.fi>; > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] > VL: IP transfer (in)security > > W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, > Philip Donner pisze: > > > I would like to amplify > Dave's good proposal, by > suggesting that unused > addresses should be handed > back to RIPE, so that they > can be added to a pool of > addresses reserved for > LIRs who needs them for > non-profit promotion of IP > networks. > > > > > > Ok, but there is never ending > story to resolve: how to > define 'unused addresses'. > Because not announced in BGP > definitely != not used. > > -- > > Tomasz Śląski > pl.skonet > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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