[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security

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Thanks,
Saket
https://hostroyale.com

On 14 May 2018 at 17:49, Dmitriy Krinitsyn <Dmitriy.Krinitsyn at virtualfort.ru
> wrote:

> Can you take me off this email chain too, please.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *От:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> от имени Peter
> Linder <peter at fiberdirekt.se>
> *Отправлено:* 14 мая 2018 г. 15:05:35
> *Кому:* David Benwell; William; Bunea TELECOM
> *Копия:* members-discuss at ripe.net
> *Тема:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
>
>
> But there is no point in arguing this. It has been discussed over and over:
>
> It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because you want it for
> free or at a very low cost. Current holders have a good legal ground to
> refuse.  Even if it was somehow reclaimed on a large scale, it would last
> for a year or so? Remember, most addresses would need to go to countries
> with large populations where Internet is not built up like it is in Europe
> or North America. Then what? Even if RIPE could reallocate addresses to
> last a few more years it would mean even *more* work to do v6, not less.
>
> Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will allocate to you. I
> know this sucks, especially in poorer countries. But that is probably the
> only way your business is going to happen, in the short term. An
> alternative would be to bother the IETF to release their reserved space but
> that is probably a waste of time (never mind de-bogonizing it).
>
> Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of cost. It will
> eventually start hurting more, and in different ways. There are ways to
> prepare for that, including making sure v6 is enabled and functioning on
> everything you make.
>
> /Peter
>
>
>
> Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell:
>
> No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why allow a LLR to
> retain address space that they may never have used.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net
> <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>] *On Behalf Of *William
> *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32
> *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> <suport at bunea.eu>
> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
>
>
>
> But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look at your history
> (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the same, steal from some parts of
> the society ('the rich') to 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong.
>
>
>
> This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian suggestion to move RIPE
> to Moscow.
>
>
>
> --
>
> William Weber
>
> Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia
>
>
>
> https://ip6.im - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab
> a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to
> have.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> wrote:
>
> Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the fact that those ‘guys’
> got their hands on /8 blocks tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a
> dime for them.
>
> In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 IPv4 policy that RIPE
> has, would belong to over 16.000 LIR accounts!
>
> And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of business compared
> to one company that holds a /8 :)
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> —
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Petru Bunea* / CEO
> suport at bunea.eu / +40752481282
>
> *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT
> http://www.bunea.eu / +40745495495
>
>
>
> On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov <alxl at telenet.lv> wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruno has it’s point.
>
>
>
> Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but only ICANN has the
> power to do so.
>
>
>
> I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as all IP space is rented
> (owning a number isn’t bright), all that rented space, wherever it is
> legacy or current should be re-audited to justify the reason of use.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Lobachov
> Telenet, sia
> Network Systems Engineer
> LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll
> E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv
> Skype: alxl__
> Direct office: +371 67886224
> Office: +371 67711111
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruno Carvalho <bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM
>
> *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net
>
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
>
>
>
> William,
>
> Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was introduced. And everyone
> should be regulated (pre-RIR or not).
>
> Is the same has if you own a car from back the traffic laws (1800 years?).
> If you drive it now, you have to comply with all the laws that regulate the
> sector.
> Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have to comply with the
> actual regulations?
>
> If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and 255.255.255.255 (that
> are not local or bogons), i bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used.
>
> ---
>
> [image: XRV]
>
> Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt) | +351 300 404 316
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
> [image: Visit our website] <https://www.xrv.pt/>
> [image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>[image: Twitter]
> <https://twitter.com/xervers>
>
>
>
> On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote:
>
>
>
> These are legacy. They are not RIR business.
>
>
>
> No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is plainly wrong, they never owned
> them, this is pre-RIR space), they are private property.
>
>
>
> Taking them is theft and nothing else, no matter how you phrase it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> William Weber
>
> Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / Rijeka, Croatia
>
>
>
> https://ip6.im - No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for some reason? Grab
> a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to
> have.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> wrote:
>
> I agree,
>
>
>
> There are tens of /8's available, some of them even unannounced. For
> example there are lots of entities which if they would gave up (even
> partially) of their unused blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete
> exaustion to 2020+.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Petru
>
> —
>
>
>
>
> <email-signature.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Petru Bunea* / CEO
> suport at bunea.eu / +40752481282
>
> *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT
> http://www.bunea.eu / +40745495495
>
>
>
> On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan Sundaram <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think we should prioritize on on point two: what to do with unused
> blocks.
>
>
>
>
> *Van:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *Namens *Bruno
> Carvalho
> *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11
> *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
>
>
>
> This discussion is quite interesting. But i think it should be discussed
> between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE.
> When we look at big companies, like Microsoft, and do a simple scan of
> their assigned IP ranges... we found some /14 and several /16
> unassigned/unused ranges.
>
>
> Personnally, i think we should focus on 2 main things:
>
>
> - Improve IPv6 implementation all over the territory (i know this is
> painfull for many LIRs because it implies additional work and purchase of
> new equipments. But let's face it. We are in 2018. If an equipment doesn't
> support IPv6, it's very obsolete and not performant).
>
>
> - Check with the other RiRs what would be the best to do with those big
> unused ranges that are owned by companies that don't use them.
>
>
> Regards
>
> ---
>
> <blocked.gif>
>
> Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt) | +351 300 404 316
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
> <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/>
> <blocked.gif> <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif>
> <https://twitter.com/xervers>
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello
>
> Not needed IP = The addressese company is ready to sell for a small profit [image:
> 😊] ? This is probably good indication that its not used anymore. One
> option is to automatically block all and any IP transaction which does not
> involve transaction of the whole company/business. It is a question that
> can IP be a commodity. Now its a commodity that is getting more rare by the
> year. Maybe IP should be considered an jointly owned part of infrastructure
> which is deployed by need basis. (Socialistic way)
>
> Other option is to start to take money per IP. This would instantly mean
> that everyone would look up to own ip spaces. Let say it would cost 1 euro
> / year for a IP it would only be approx 1000 euros for the smallest
> allocation. Someone with 10 million IP addressese are likely to happily pay
> for it fi they are in use, but if they are not i would think they would be
> handed back. (Capitalistic way)
>
> One option is also to go with the current system because internet is
> working so its not horribly wrong at the moment either.
>
> One interesting this is tho that old LIR:s are likely to wanting to keep
> these things unchanged. New LIR:s are more likely to want changes as this
> is heavily favoring old LIR:s. And every year a proportionally larger part
> will be the ones with few IP:s and same vote than the one with alot of IP:s
> and also only 1 vote.
>
> Br. Hans
>
>
>
>
> -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> Lähettäjä: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> Puolesta
> REG ID: pl.skonet
> Lähetetty: maanantai 14. toukokuuta 2018 10.34
> Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi; members-discuss at ripe.net
> Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
>
> W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip Donner pisze:
>
>
> I would like to amplify Dave's good proposal, by suggesting that unused
> addresses should be handed back to RIPE, so that they can be added to a
> pool of addresses reserved for LIRs who needs them for non-profit promotion
> of IP networks.
>
>
> Ok, but there is never ending story to resolve: how to define 'unused
> addresses'. Because not announced in BGP definitely != not used.
>
> --
>
> Tomasz Śląski
> pl.skonet
>
>
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