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[members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security
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Daniel Pearson
daniel at privatesystems.net
Mon May 14 14:50:15 CEST 2018
Well, use your email address and reset it :) On 05/14/2018 07:48 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > unsubscribe link need a password !! > > *From:*Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net> > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:48 > *To:* Anas Tablieh <ATablieh at sierrawireless.com>; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > Hi there, > > This is a mailing list, please use the unsubscribe link at the bottom > of these emails that is associated with your email address! > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:45 AM, Anas Tablieh wrote: > > Please remove my mail address from this chat !!!!!! > > *From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Daniel > Pearson > *Sent:* lundi 14 mai 2018 14:25 > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > I concur, there is no legal leg to stand on to force space to be > returned. It just cannot happen, end period. Thinking about it is > nothing but a fantasy and we live in reality. > > What your asking is no different than having a complete stranger > walk up to your house, admire your big empty back yard, demand > that you give it to them because they want to build a house in > your neighborhood and well, you don't use your backyard so why > can't they have it for free? > > > > On 05/14/2018 07:05 AM, Peter Linder wrote: > > But there is no point in arguing this. It has been discussed > over and over: > > It is not feasible to "reclaim" legacy space, just because you > want it for free or at a very low cost. Current holders have a > good legal ground to refuse. Even if it was somehow reclaimed > on a large scale, it would last for a year or so? Remember, > most addresses would need to go to countries with large > populations where Internet is not built up like it is in > Europe or North America. Then what? Even if RIPE could > reallocate addresses to last a few more years it would mean > even *more* work to do v6, not less. > > Just buy the addresses you need, if more than RIPE will > allocate to you. I know this sucks, especially in poorer > countries. But that is probably the only way your business is > going to happen, in the short term. An alternative would be to > bother the IETF to release their reserved space but that is > probably a waste of time (never mind de-bogonizing it). > > Right now IPv4 shortage is hurting a little because of cost. > It will eventually start hurting more, and in different ways. > There are ways to prepare for that, including making sure v6 > is enabled and functioning on everything you make. > > /Peter > > Den 2018-05-14 kl. 13:38, skrev David Benwell: > > No its about preventing the waste of IP Addresses. Why > allow a LLR to retain address space that they may never > have used. > > *From:*members-discuss > [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On Behalf Of > *William > *Sent:* 14 May 2018 12:32 > *To:* Bunea TELECOM <suport at bunea.eu> <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> > *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer (in)security > > But this does not CHANGE IT IS THEFT, please have a look > at your history (or here in Croatia) - you want to do the > same, steal from some parts of the society ('the rich') to > 'benefit' the whole which ends horribly wrong. > > This discussion is almost as absurd as the Russian > suggestion to move RIPE to Moscow. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, Israel / > Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im- No RIPE LIR? Still read this email for > some reason? Grab a /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. > Or just get it anyway, can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 13:16, Bunea TELECOM > <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > Everybody that says it’s theft, please consider the > fact that those ‘guys’ got their hands on /8 blocks > tens of years ago, and probably did not pay a dime for > them. > > In the light of events, one /8, respecting the 1024 > IPv4 policy that RIPE has, would belong to over 16.000 > LIR accounts! > > And I must say, 16.000 companies would create a lot of > business compared to one company that holds a /8 :) > > Thanks > > — > > > imap://daniel%40knownhost%2Ecom@mail.knownhost.com:143/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX%3E303885?header=quotebody&part=1.2&filename=image001.jpg > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu> / > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM* / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / > +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495> > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 14:16, Alex Lobachov > <alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv>> wrote: > > Bruno has it’s point. > > Legacy parts of the space should be reclaimed, but > only ICANN has the power to do so. > > I don’t like to call it a thief, I’d rather say as > all IP space is rented (owning a number isn’t > bright), all that rented space, wherever it is > legacy or current should be re-audited to justify > the reason of use. > > > -- > Alex Lobachov > Telenet, sia > Network Systems Engineer > LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll > E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv <mailto:alxl at telenet.lv> > Skype: alxl__ > Direct office: +371 67886224 > Office: +371 67711111 > > *From:*Bruno Carvalho <mailto:bruno.carvalho at xrv.pt> > > *Sent:*Monday, May 14, 2018 2:04 PM > > *To:*members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > *Subject:*Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP transfer > (in)security > > William, > > Legacy or not, at one point a regulation was > introduced. And everyone should be regulated > (pre-RIR or not). > > Is the same has if you own a car from back the > traffic laws (1800 years?). If you drive it now, > you have to comply with all the laws that regulate > the sector. > Why the legacy address space owners shouldn't have > to comply with the actual regulations? > > If we look deep on the spaces between 0.0.0.0 and > 255.255.255.255 (that are not local or bogons), i > bet that most than 50% are legacy and not used. > > --- > > Image removed by sender. XRV > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt <http://xrv.pt>) | +351 > 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment before printing > this email > > > > Image removed by sender. Visit our website > <https://www.xrv.pt/> > Image removed by sender. Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/>Image removed > by sender. Twitter <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > On 2018-05-14 12:46, William wrote: > > These are legacy. They are not RIR business. > > No RIR can reclaim them (and reclaim is > plainly wrong, they never owned them, this is > pre-RIR space), they are private property. > > Taking them is theft and nothing else, no > matter how you phrase it. > > -- > > William Weber > > Consulting, Security & Management - Tel-Aviv, > Israel / Rijeka, Croatia > > https://ip6.im <https://ip6.im/>- No RIPE LIR? > Still read this email for some reason? Grab a > /40 *free* IPv6 space for BGP usage. Or just > get it anyway, can't hurt to have. > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 12:27, Bunea TELECOM > <suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>> wrote: > > I agree, > > There are tens of /8's available, some of > them even unannounced. For example there > are lots of entities which if they would > gave up (even partially) of their unused > blocks, it would push the IPv4 complete > exaustion to 2020+. > > Thanks, > > Petru > > — > > > <email-signature.jpg> > > > > > > *Petru Bunea* / CEO > suport at bunea.eu <mailto:suport at bunea.eu>/ > +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> > > *Bunea TELECOM*/ DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT > http://www.bunea.eu > <http://www.bunea.eu/>/ +40745495495 > <tel:+40745495495> > > > > On 14 May 2018, at 11:20, Janarthanan > Sundaram <j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl > <mailto:j.sundaram at 123telcom.nl>> wrote: > > I think we should prioritize on on > point two: what to do with unused blocks. > > > *Van:* members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > *Namens *Bruno Carvalho > *Verzonden:* maandag 14 mei 2018 10:11 > *Aan:* members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > *Onderwerp:* Re: [members-discuss] VL: > IP transfer (in)security > > This discussion is quite interesting. > But i think it should be discussed > between all RiRs. Not only for RIPE. > When we look at big companies, like > Microsoft, and do a simple scan of > their assigned IP ranges... we found > some /14 and several /16 > unassigned/unused ranges. > > > Personnally, i think we should focus > on 2 main things: > > > - Improve IPv6 implementation all over > the territory (i know this is painfull > for many LIRs because it implies > additional work and purchase of new > equipments. But let's face it. We are > in 2018. If an equipment doesn't > support IPv6, it's very obsolete and > not performant). > > > - Check with the other RiRs what would > be the best to do with those big > unused ranges that are owned by > companies that don't use them. > > > Regards > > > > --- > > <blocked.gif> > > > > Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt > <http://xrv.pt/>) | +351 300 404 316 > P Please consider the environment > before printing this email > > > > > > <blocked.gif> <https://www.xrv.pt/> > <blocked.gif> > <https://www.facebook.com/xervers/><blocked.gif> > <https://twitter.com/xervers> > > > > > On 2018-05-14 09:51, Hans Govenius wrote: > > > > > > Hello > > Not needed IP = The addressese > company is ready to sell for a > small profit 😊 ? This is probably > good indication that its not used > anymore. One option is to > automatically block all and any IP > transaction which does not involve > transaction of the whole > company/business. It is a question > that can IP be a commodity. Now > its a commodity that is getting > more rare by the year. Maybe IP > should be considered an jointly > owned part of infrastructure which > is deployed by need basis. > (Socialistic way) > > Other option is to start to take > money per IP. This would instantly > mean that everyone would look up > to own ip spaces. Let say it would > cost 1 euro / year for a IP it > would only be approx 1000 euros > for the smallest allocation. > Someone with 10 million IP > addressese are likely to happily > pay for it fi they are in use, but > if they are not i would think they > would be handed back. > (Capitalistic way) > > One option is also to go with the > current system because internet is > working so its not horribly wrong > at the moment either. > > One interesting this is tho that > old LIR:s are likely to wanting to > keep these things unchanged. New > LIR:s are more likely to want > changes as this is heavily > favoring old LIR:s. And every year > a proportionally larger part will > be the ones with few IP:s and same > vote than the one with alot of > IP:s and also only 1 vote. > > Br. Hans > > > > > -----Alkuperäinen viesti----- > Lähettäjä: members-discuss > <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> > Puolesta REG ID: pl.skonet > Lähetetty: maanantai 14. > toukokuuta 2018 10.34 > Vastaanottaja: pdonner at znak.fi > <mailto:pdonner at znak.fi>; > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > Aihe: Re: [members-discuss] VL: IP > transfer (in)security > > W dniu 14.05.2018 o 09:25, Philip > Donner pisze: > > > I would like to amplify Dave's > good proposal, by suggesting > that unused addresses should > be handed back to RIPE, so > that they can be added to a > pool of addresses reserved for > LIRs who needs them for > non-profit promotion of IP > networks. > > > > > Ok, but there is never ending > story to resolve: how to define > 'unused addresses'. Because not > announced in BGP definitely != not > used. > > -- > > Tomasz Śląski > pl.skonet > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hans.govenius%40devnet.fi > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bruno.carvalho%40xrv.pt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alxl%40telenet.lv > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/peter%40fiberdirekt.se > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > members-discuss mailing list > > members-discuss at ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net> > > https://mailman.ripe.net/ > > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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