[members-discuss] IP transfer (in)security

While it is philosophically correct, but practically it might not work.
1- if there wouldn't be any benefit/enforcement in returning the unused IP, no body would return
2- denying buy/sell process would move such transactions to lease/rent transactions

The whole process is a broken and at any time based on any policy which comes to make it better, some players have tried to use most out of it. It seems still not sure if there could be a best complete solution to this problem, but there could be several intermediate remedies which can make different aspects of the process better. Like making the transfers safer and easier and more reliable for the members. 

Regards
Payam

-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of David Benwell
Sent: May 9, 2018 7:03 PM
To: Max Tulyev <maxtul at netassist.ua>; members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] IP transfer (in)security

I still think offering IP's for sale / transfer is the wrong process.

If the LIR does not need the IPs so is then willing to sell them, instead they should hand back to RIPE.

Why is it allowed for a public resource such as IP Addresses allowed to be used for large profits in such way.

It annoys me. Hand them back to RIPE, so can be added out to a LIR who needs the addresses.

It's all about greed and money.

Regards
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Max Tulyev
Sent: 09 May 2018 15:29
To: members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] IP transfer (in)security

Hi Sergey,

Yes, I think so.

First, RIPE NCC work for it's members (I still hope so). Members needs in safe IP transfers.

Second, only RIPE NCC staff decides either the transfer will be successful or not. For any other parties (escrows) it is unpredictable, and often not understandable at all. It can lead to mistakes, which can costs RIPE NCC members a lot of money and some time even a business.

Third, YES, I want RIPE NCC to be responsible for money involved in transfers. Now if somehow transfer is reverted - that's only a buyer problem. Do you think it is really good? Now in case of any mistake which in fact costs hundreds of thousands euros, RIPE NCC put their hands in pockets and show the poker face. I do not think it is good and fair.

Of course, I do not want RIPE NCC's escrow to be mandatory, but only a
(good) option. If you don't want to show RIPE NCC staff your financial side of the deal - you are free to choose any other escrow, or do not use any escrow at all.

09.05.18 15:22, Sergey Myasoedov пише:
> Hi Max,
> 
>> Buyer transfer money to escrow. Escrow either release money to 
>> seller, or return it to buyer. That's all.
>> If you still afraid, RIPE NCC can establish a branch company to 
>> isolate risks.
> 
> Do you really think this should be an RIR business?
> 
> 
> --
> Kind regards,
> Sergey Myasoedov
> 
>> On 9 May 2018, at 12:18, Max Tulyev <maxtul at netassist.ua 
>> <mailto:maxtul at netassist.ua>> wrote:
>>
>> I think it is much less risky than arrange a RIPE meeting.
>>
>> Buyer transfer money to escrow. Escrow either release money to 
>> seller, or return it to buyer. That's all.
>> If you still afraid, RIPE NCC can establish a branch company to 
>> isolate risks.
>>
>> 09.05.18 15:06, Lu Heng пише:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Business has risks, I really don’t think RIPE should get involved 
>>> into commercial side of transaction
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:04 Max Tulyev <maxtul at netassist.ua 
>>> <mailto:maxtul at netassist.ua>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi All,
>>>
>>>     let me point it again, Escrow service for IP transfers is the
>>>     most valuable service for LIRs we are waiting from RIPE NCC.
>>>
>>>     The only 100% secure Escrow agent for that deals can be ONLY the
>>>     RIPE NCC.
>>>
>>>
>>>     09.05.18 14:54, Dana Konkin (Onwave) пише:
>>>>
>>>>     Greetings all.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     We have gone to a RIPE broker to obtain IPs that we badly need
>>>>     for upcoming customers. Never having been through this process
>>>>     before I am slightly timid because of the cost of IPs these
>>>>     days, and so the plan is to use escrow.
>>>>
>>>>     So,  my question relates to how to avoid getting my employer to
>>>>     hand out a wad of cash without a clear means to be totally
>>>>     secure that they will be able to use the IPs.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Is it possible to obtain from RIPE a guaranteed way for the
>>>>     Escrow agent to check with 100% accuracy that the IP transfer
>>>>     has been accepted by RIPE, that we can begin announcing and
>>>>     using the prefix, and that my company is safe to release money
>>>>     to the seller of the IP addresses?
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>      
>>>>      
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks very much
>>>>
>>>>     Dana
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     PS -My apology for not being able to find any previous answer to
>>>>     this in the archives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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