[members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly

Hi,

From the OP:

We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved.
As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth.
But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018).

This matches to at least point 2, maybe to point one.

Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company.  Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?

Again “A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. If a member chooses to close one or more of the LIR accounts they hold in the course of the RIPE NCC financial year, the service fees for the relevant LIR accounts must still be paid in full. If the service fee has already been paid in full, no pro rata refunds will apply.”

If you don’t like it, create a draft in the PDP and ask the community to adopt. If the community doesn’t adopt, you’re free to disagree and commit, but you have to stick to the rules. Absolutely no matter for such a discussion outside of the PDP, which is nothing more, than annoying.

kind regards
Christoph Neukirch

From: Igor Slesarev [mailto:hostmaster.igor at gmail.com]
Sent: Montag, 23. Juli 2018 10:03
To: Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch at xing.com>
Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly

Are you kidding? The reason is only one.
RIPE forces them to pay extra 350 euro for the 1st quartal 2018 by the agreement which was issued in the 2d quartal and don't relate to LIR and the subject of the transfer.

Igor Slesarev

2018-07-20 13:32 GMT+00:00 Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch at xing.com<mailto:Christoph.Neukirch at xing.com>>:
Guys,

There is no problem.

What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC.

In simple short words:

  *   For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year.
  *   If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year.
  *   Same applies to your wish to transfer resources.
  *   Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months.
  *   You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community.

Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further.

kind regards,
Christoph Neukirch

From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>] On Behalf Of ???? ????????
Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2018 11:10
To: members-discuss at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>

Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly

If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility.
Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs.
(You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want)
you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described.

RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided.
If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019.




Kind regards, Inna

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen at itc.rwth-aachen.de<mailto:viethen at itc.rwth-aachen.de>>
Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20

I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating!



Kind regards,  C.



________________________________
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group at ukr.net<mailto:bestseller.group at ukr.net>>
Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59
To: Aleksey Bulgakov
Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly

"There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it."
Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law.
I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact".

Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush

17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov at gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov at gmail.com>>:

Hi.

There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available  for future business so long asit  possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation.

вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey at ukr.net<mailto:levrinets.andrey at ukr.net>>:
Hi all,
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)"
There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year.

--
Andrey

16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster at freethought-internet.co.uk<mailto:hostmaster at freethought-internet.co.uk>>:

Hi Jens,

Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity.

See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-and-fee-schedule-2018#fees-for-new-members for example.

Edward Dore
Freethought Internet

From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe at opteamax.de<mailto:ripe at opteamax.de>>
Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02
To: "members-discuss at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>" <members-discuss at ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>>
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly

Hi,

Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs.

Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer.

BR
Jens

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