[members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support

Hello Juri,

I support what you wrote in your email.
Any company with an additional LIR account(s) should pay only for period
from date when LIR account activated by RIPE NCC.

Best regards,
Ivan Bulavkin

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:12 AM Juri <hostmaster at ntx.ru> wrote:

> Dear RIPE NCC Members i.e. LIR!
>
> RIPE77 meeting  is over but some questions still active and I want to
> bring them up for discussion. This is long-read, but please read it,
> it’s important.
>
> I work at ISP company and work a lot of with RIPE NCC as well as for LIR
> management and registrations. I want RIPE NCC become better for all LIRs
> and try to participate. For long time I face with RIPE NCC strange
> billing issues, and I feel not comfortable with them. I run ISP company
> and I understand how to manage customers and how usually billing for
> services of the IT company should work.
>
> I will try to split different issues in different emails.
>
> First I want to say that I tried to find an answer for my question from
> Finance department of the RIPE NCC, I spent a time for that and I found
> that it was not correct place for that. I was forwarded to RIPE NCC
> Board for such discussion. I wrote my experience at RIPE77 Meeting to
> the Board and got feedback that the ideas and facts I explained to them
> should be discussed in Members-Discuss list because they are not
> described in Policies. So that’s my try to do that.
>
> Let me show you several simple billing issues. They will be related to
> companies who pays much more than other companies to RIPE NCC. These are
> Multi LIR companies. Yes, everybody knows that company may have several
> LIR accounts at RIPE NCC if company pays membership and setup fees. This
> is quite normal and a lot of companies use this ability. Let’s start.
>
> What kind of issues do we have. Let me explain most important of them.
>
> 1) If a company want to do anything (transfer a part or merge with your
> existing company) with one of your LIRs RIPE NCC will ask you to pay
> till the end of the year for all LIRs. This is not fear and not correct
> because RIPE NCC really doesn’t give a LIR service H companies.
>
> 2) Let’s say you just opened in December new one LIR for your company
> (and paid fees for the last 4th part of the year + setup fees) and want
> to do something with other LIR resources on account of the same company.
>  RIPE NCC will ask to pay full year for LIR that were opened just in
> current year. What we have? You just get service for last part of the
> year but you should pay for membership for LIR for the time that it was
> not existed. This is insane for IT company to overcharge members for the
> past time.
>
> 3) If one company merge another one - they get still limitations for
> keeping several LIRs for several years. Such things should not happen.
> It was not so sometime before but now that happens.
>
> What I see? RIPE NCC overcharge LIRs.
> Why? It was not so some amount of time ago. RIPE NCC didn’t care about
> that, but they changed it without any discussion with members.
>
> Now I want to answer for Important question for those members who wish
> to start telling me about something else.... I will give you an answer
> here. All RIPE NCC members have the limit for changes/transfers and etc
> as 2 years (24 month) of hold time. If this time should be changed -
> it’s a way to Policy development process. Everybody believe that
> expenses for having extra LIR should be for 2 years (24 month), let’s
> say this is what we have and this delay is written in  RIPE NCC
> documents. If we want to discuss this time - it's other one discussion.
>
> In real life this 2 years means 3 years (and usually *N). LIRs have to
> pay extra membership fees for (3-4 years)*N of LIRs, but not for 2 years
> as it should be. I find this unfair for LIRs. I want all LIRs have clear
> billing and pay for services/membership that we have really consumed.
> This is normal and correct to have clear and good billing.
>
>
> What do I suggest?
>
> I suggest RIPE NCC do correct accounting for each LIR for the time this
> LIR instance exists. If LIR has annual billing - then RIPE NCC should
> use it. If LIR selected quarterly billing - RIPE NCC show use. But RIPE
> NCC should not overcharge LIRs for the time they didn't give any
> services for LIR instance.
>
> Please support me and reply to this email. Or write your opinion.
> I believe RIPE NCC should work better for LIRs. Your voice is important.
>
> Juri
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>
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