[members-discuss] Executive Board Resolution on Legacy Internet Resource Holders

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016, at 23:30, Erik Bais - A2B Internet wrote:
> Hi Radu, 
> 
> > Could someone remind us why in the first place:
> > - a legacy block can be broken into smaller pieces (which can then be
> > transferred)
> 
> Why shouldn't it ? The database allows assigning space to a third party
> .. but it also allows Allocating space to a third party. 
> Allocating being the more permanent version ...  in RIPE PA terms, a
> transfer. 

Of memory you can't do that with an "ASSIGNED PI".

> > - after the transfer, the parts of the old legacy block still remain
> > tagged as legacy
> 
> True 

The question was more like "but why?"

> This is a legal issue. As RIPE doesn't own Legacy space, it can't enforce
> this by policy .. as Legacy doesn't fall under policy. Legacy is an ASSET
> of the legal holder. 
> And with RIPE PA space, the user of the IP space only holds the right of
> use, while they have a good standing with the RIPE NCC ( pay their fees
> for the LIR membership ) 

Got the point, but I still have some issues with some of the pre-requis
that makes it valid.
Like the "ownership" of numbers. More exactly the reason that makes the
numbers "owned".

> In that regard, I truely don't understand why the RIPE NCC asks legacy
> space holders if they want to convert their legacy space to RIPE PA space

In order to make things uniform ?

> That has to do with the historic rights that were given with the IP
> space, before the RIPE NCC was established..  It isn't that legacy
> holders are given full rights, they already had the rights before RIPE
> NCC was established. 
> 
> > 
> > I can understand that a legacy space holder can keep the space
> > "received" before the existence of the NCC, but not the fact that others
> > can acquire that kind of space and pretend to the same treatment.
> 
> Yes, they can. And the RIPE NCC is right not to try to step into that
> pitfall as they are not a party between the legal holder and the new
> legal holder.

Please see my previous post about the land registry. 
At some point, the registry has a role to play in all this.

> Just because the RIPE NCC is in the same business of leasing out IP space
> to others, doesn't mean that they can meddle with other parties in the
> same region that have a similar status as the RIPE NCC ( legacy holders
> being able to Allocate space to other parties) .. even if they are not
> called a RIR ... 

Then they kindly fix that with whoever "gave" them the IP address space
(IANA ???) and operate their own registry(es).

> We don't have to sponsor legacy space holders in order to become a LIR..

That would only be the first step :)

-- 
Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN