[members-discuss] Sign-up fee for additional LIR account

> > > each entity has one vote
> > > even if they have multiple LIR accounts under the same entity.
> >
> > In the current scheme, if you change the scheme that may change too
> 
> We have a democratic system, if we follow your line of argumentation we
> might as well setup a dictatorship.

A large LIR may think you are planning a coup to overthrow
a long established and member agreed system.

> > > We are not shifting any costs, we are just asking each member to pay
> > their
> > > fair share for the amount of resources they are using
> >
> > Yes it is, it is shifting the cost to larger members, hugely
> 
> I disagree, we are acting in the interests of the RIPE NCC membership.

Some of the membership, mostly newer ones it seems who did not contribute
to building it (I'm guessing from what you've said)

Fairness is not one faction getting what they want to the detriment of
the others. More so when the stated intent is to price them into
giving up IPv4 space so you can have it instead. There is already a member
agreed fair system for using money to move IPs between members

> > > 8,23 Euros per year per 256 IPv4 addresses is hardly a business case
> > > breaking amount of money.
> >
> > I referred to the current scheme which is also hardly a business case
> > breaking amount of money. So cost is not a good reason to change it
> > especially when changing it will drive the sort of behaviour that
> > RIPE are trying to prevent
> 
> Asking the people with the least amount of resources to cover the
> membership fee for the 1% is inherently unfair especially when we have the
> tools to re-establish some fairness in an inherently unfair system.

Fees aren't based on quantity of IPs they are based on cost to RIPE of managing
memberships (RIPE can better explain the current scheme).

The fee is currently equal for all - one membership, one vote, one fee
 
> The current membership fee of 1400 Euros per year represents for small
> business an unnecessary burden and is inherently unfair and it needs to be
> changed and I am sure the voting will reflect that sentiment.

The small business chose to become a LIR and incur that fee, that's
hardly unfair when it was their choice and known when they decided to
enter that business. It's not like they are being asked to pay a
large amount where they hadn't before

> You seem to not want to re-establish fairness and keep the system unfair
> for the sake of not changing anything,  I don't want that and I will try to
> use the democratic tools we currently still have at our disposal to make an
> inherently unfair situation a little bit fairer but you are obviously
> entitled to your opinion and should vote accordingly.

Don't make up opinions for me, I haven't stated a view of how things should
be I just explored some possible outcomes of doing this. As a small LIR
we would benefit greatly from this change, that doesn't stop me considering
the other sides view (ie trying to be fair to all) and doesn't mean I
am arguing against or for you, I will decide that after a reasoanble debate
and considering several views.

regards
brandon