[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss

You can't think about aggregation anymore. Fortunately, RAM is not an
expensive finite resource, unlike IPv4 is.

On 11.02.16 17:40, Pavel Odintsov wrote:
> Why they are bad for economy? As you could see in my
> research http://www.stableit.ru/2016/01/full-bgp-table-distribution-by-prefix.html
> current IPv4 routing space already VERY fragmented and /24 subnet is
> most popular now.
> 
> So actually we could just forget about network aggregation :(
> 
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Dominik Nowacki
> <dominik at clouvider.co.uk <mailto:dominik at clouvider.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Pavel,
>     Then no one transfers, many LIRs have large unused pools and you
>     can't even buy them on the market. Even worse situation - tax is bad
>     for economy.
> 
>     With Kind Regards, 
>     Dominik Nowacki 
>      
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>     On 11 Feb 2016, at 15:37, Pavel Odintsov <odintsov at fastvps.ru
>     <mailto:odintsov at fastvps.ru>> wrote:
> 
>>     So I have yet another advice.
>>
>>     I like idea to pay some taxes for each transferred subnet.  If you
>>     move /16 you should "pay" /20 to public RIPE's pool. What about this? 
>>
>>     On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Raul Pizarro Vazquez
>>     <intervenciones at electronicamartinez.com
>>     <mailto:intervenciones at electronicamartinez.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Why not just to set a yearly fee for all IPs? for example
>>         0,01$ / IP per Month or so. Making that ips will really unused
>>         will get back to ripe soon. Ripe could give them free again
>>         but all of us should pay a little monthly for have them.
>>
>>         El 11/02/16 a las 16:05, Pavel Odintsov escribió:
>>>         I have few words about IPv6. I'm real fan of IPv6. 
>>>
>>>         But actually almost all companies who want last /22 subnet
>>>         just get IPv6 and do not use it really. From my point of
>>>         view, you should check real network usage by analyzing BGP
>>>         routing table.
>>>
>>>         In other words each LIR should:
>>>         1) Get new IPv6 subet from RIPE
>>>         2) Announce it and offer IPv6 address for checks
>>>         3) Get last /22 IPv4 subnet
>>>
>>>         Almost all "IPv6" subnets received for last months haven't
>>>         used really. That's bad. 
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Jack <noc at kwaoo.net
>>>         <mailto:noc at kwaoo.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             > RIPE supports reselling of big subnets by providing their Transfer listing service.
>>>             > Those networks shouldn’t be sold. They should be returned to the NCC pool and be assigned to providers who need them.
>>>             Providers who need them, means, in my opinion, providers
>>>             who have a wide
>>>             IPv6 deployment.
>>>             Tough job to appreciate the IPv6 deployement status of a
>>>             LIR, but I
>>>             really think this must be a requirement for getting more
>>>             IPv4 easily.
>>>
>>>             You want IPv4 ? Deploy IPv6, then we will talk. You do
>>>             not care about
>>>             IPv6 ? No v4 for you.
>>>
>>>
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > Von: members-discuss [mailto:<mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net
>>>             <mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net>] Im Auftrag von
>>>             Pavel Odintsov
>>>             > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2016 15:42
>>>             > An: Radu Brebu <dial at dialcube.ro
>>>             <mailto:dial at dialcube.ro><mailto:<mailto:dial at dialcube.ro>dial at dialcube.ro
>>>             <mailto:dial at dialcube.ro>>>
>>>             > Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net
>>>             <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net><mailto:<mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>members-discuss at ripe.net
>>>             <mailto:members-discuss at ripe.net>>
>>>             > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss
>>>             >
>>>             > Hello, folks!
>>>             >
>>>             > That's good conversation. I'm representing VPS service company. We bought multiple /20 and /21 subnets at last 2 years.
>>>             >
>>>             > But actually there really big injustice exists here!
>>>             >
>>>             > I've followed all RIPE guidance and request resources only when they really required for next 3-6 months. I have 95% subnet utilization in each network! All my IP addresses really used.
>>>             >
>>>             > But I known so much LIR's who just ignore RIPE rules and requested bunch of /18, /16 networks many years ago.... just because they can. Right now almost all this networks are on IPv4 market.
>>>             >
>>>             > And I should pay my money to persons which violated RIPE rules for a long time.
>>>             >
>>>             > Than't really weird, isn't it?
>>>             >
>>>             > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Radu Brebu
>>>             <dial at dialcube.ro
>>>             <mailto:dial at dialcube.ro><mailto:<mailto:dial at dialcube.ro>dial at dialcube.ro
>>>             <mailto:dial at dialcube.ro>>> wrote:
>>>             > Hi all,
>>>             >
>>>             > This is a socialist way of thinking, you are free
>>>             (ipotetic speaking) to open another lir and satisfy your
>>>             VPS needs no? some companies prefer to plan their
>>>             business long term. In my opinion it's not ok to
>>>             prioritize resources keeping in mind only the need. We
>>>             are leaving and doing business in a capitalist
>>>             environment, buying resources it is what is all about.
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > On 02/11/16 16:19, José Manuel Giner wrote:
>>>             > I agree with it. We need IPs to continue providing VPS
>>>             servers, and other LIRs with unused prefixes, no sense...
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > On 11/02/2016 15:09, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
>>>             > Hi, all.
>>>             >
>>>             >  I think, it is better to return unused allocations,
>>>             received before
>>>             >  2012, to the NCC pool.
>>>             >
>>>             >  --
>>>             >  Kind regards,
>>>             >  Aleksey Bulgakov
>>>             >  FastTelecom, CEO
>>>             >  7 926 6908729
>>>             >
>>>             > 14:02, 11 февраля 2016 г., Nigel Titley :
>>>             >
>>>             >     Dear colleagues,
>>>             >
>>>             >     The RIPE NCC Executive Board would like to ask the
>>>             membership to
>>>             >     discuss
>>>             >     the issue of RIPE NCC members opening additional
>>>             LIR accounts.
>>>             >
>>>             >     There were comments at the RIPE NCC General Meeting
>>>             (GM) in November
>>>             >     2015 that members having the ability to open
>>>             additional LIR accounts,
>>>             >     each of which can request a /22 of IPv4 address
>>>             space, may run against
>>>             >     the spirit of the last /8 policy. In light of this,
>>>             the Board
>>>             >     decided to
>>>             >     temporarily suspend the ability of RIPE NCC members
>>>             to open additional
>>>             >     LIR accounts.
>>>             >
>>>             >     The RIPE NCC began to allocate IPv4 address space
>>>             from the last /8
>>>             >     policy on 14 September 2012. Since that time the
>>>             RIPE NCC has
>>>             >     allocated
>>>             >     more than 8,600 /22s, yet there remains 0.94 of a
>>>             /8 still in the
>>>             >     pool.
>>>             >
>>>             >     ACTION REQUIRED:
>>>             >     The Board asks the membership to provide their
>>>             opinion on and discuss
>>>             >     the following points:
>>>             >
>>>             >     1. Is the activity of members opening additional
>>>             LIR accounts a
>>>             >     problem
>>>             >     that must be prevented?
>>>             >
>>>             >     2. If this activity is a problem that must be
>>>             prevented, what action
>>>             >     should the RIPE NCC take to attempt its prevention?
>>>             >
>>>             >     Statistics pertinent to this discussion are
>>>             available in this
>>>             >     article on
>>>             >     RIPE Labs:
>>>             >
>>>             https://labs.ripe.net/Members/laura_cobley/ripe-ncc-members-and-multiple-lir-accounts?pk_campaign=members&pk_kwd=list-ncc
>>>             >
>>>             >     The Board asks that members discuss this issue on
>>>             the Members Discuss
>>>             >     mailing list .
>>>             >
>>>             >     The Board will monitor the discussion and will
>>>             review it at the next
>>>             >     Executive Board Meeting on 31 March 2016. Depending
>>>             on the outcome of
>>>             >     that meeting, the Board may propose a resolution
>>>             for members to
>>>             >     vote on
>>>             >     at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May 2016.
>>>             >
>>>             >     Best regards,
>>>             >
>>>             >     Nigel Titley
>>>             >     RIPE NCC Executive Board
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > ----
>>>             > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC
>>>             members-discuss
>>>             > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account
>>>             and go to the general page:
>>>             > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>             >
>>>             > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed
>>>             Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > ----
>>>             > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC
>>>             members-discuss
>>>             > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account
>>>             and go to the general page:
>>>             > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>             >
>>>             > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed
>>>             Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > --
>>>             > Sincerely yours,  Pavel Odintsov
>>>             > CTO, FastVPS Eesti OU
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             >
>>>             > ----
>>>             > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC
>>>             members-discuss
>>>             > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account
>>>             and go to the general page:
>>>             > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>             >
>>>             > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed
>>>             Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>             >
>>>
>>>
>>>             --
>>>             Jack
>>>             Kwaoo noc
>>>
>>>             More details about KWAOO can be found at:
>>>             https://as24904.kwaoo.net/
>>>
>>>             ----
>>>             If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC
>>>             members-discuss
>>>             mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account
>>>             and go to the general page:
>>>             https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>
>>>             Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing
>>>             Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Sincerely yours,  Pavel Odintsov
>>>         CTO, FastVPS Eesti OU
>>>
>>>
>>>         ----
>>>         If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>>         mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
>>>         https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>>
>>>         Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>
>>         -- 
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>         *Nombre:* Raul Pizarro Vazquez
>>         *Cargo:* Responsable Técnico
>>         *Departamento:* Centro de Observacion de Red
>>         *Email:* intervenciones at electronicamartinez.com
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>>         ----
>>         If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC
>>         members-discuss
>>         mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go
>>         to the general page:
>>         https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>
>>         Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing
>>         Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Sincerely yours,  Pavel Odintsov
>>     CTO, FastVPS Eesti OU
>>     ----
>>     If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
>>     mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to
>>     the general page:
>>     https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>>
>>     Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists".
>>     From here, you can add or remove addresses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely yours,  Pavel Odintsov
> CTO, FastVPS Eesti OU
> 
> 
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> 
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>