[members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members
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Edward Dore
ripe at freethought-internet.co.uk
Wed May 28 14:16:43 CEST 2014
Some members in their infinite wisdom have decided to subscribe their ticketing systems to the mailing list, so they raised a ticket automatically when you sent your email and then sent the auto-response message back to you. Edward Dore Freethought Internet On 28 May 2014, at 12:56, Timothy Roy <Timothy at tra.gov.om> wrote: > I do not know what happened but after I sent my reply to this I started getting all sorts of emails relating to trouble tickets being created. > > See attached emails if you like. I find this quite strange. > > Anyone know why this would happen? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of admin at intl-alliance.com > Sent: 28 May 2014 15:50 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members > > Folks, I sincerely apologize for my coarse language. I am just extremely frustrated over this situation. > > On 2014-05-28 12:40, Timothy Roy wrote: >> I think that this is an issue to brought up through an Internet >> Governance Forum which also deals with cooperation amongst various >> stakeholders and entities. >> >> I have found the reading quite interesting but it would be nice to >> maintain a certain amount of etiquette (for some people) when writing >> emails (especially on an open list like this one) by curbing the >> language a bit. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net >> [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Lu Heng >> Sent: 28 May 2014 15:24 >> To: Bill Lewis >> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members >> >> it's like blacklist for spammers...even though a lot of spammer claim >> they are obeying the can-spam law, they still can not sue spamhuis for >> blacklisting them, because end of the day, spamhuis are only express >> their opinion and they do not force anyone to use their opinion. >> >> same for the location thing, they only express their opinion and they >> are not forcing anyone to believe in them...so aside from contact each >> content provider or maxmind their self, i really don't see much we can >> do about it. >> >> but really...i don't think ripe member mailing list is something for >> this kind of discussion about private business... >> >> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Bill Lewis <Bill.lewis at kijoma.co.uk> >> wrote: >>> hi, >>> >>> this has become a problem for us recently. Customers reporting sites >>> such as netflix and spotify declaring that they are in a different >>> country. >>> >>> The least this does is change their web pages to the language making >>> it near impossible to use, the worst is a complete denial of service >>> due to being outside the service coverage area. >>> >>> We have had to ask customers of these services to pressure the >>> content providers to resolve their location database issues as the >>> likes of Maxmind are near impossible to gain any action out of from >>> our experience. >>> >>> It seems if paying customers of the content providers growl at them >>> then the problem gets fixed a lot faster than an ISP contacting >>> Maxmind etc.. >>> >>> Surely it isn't hard for the likes of Maxmind to use the top level >>> country data from RIPE at least, before bolting on their localising >>> data? >>> >>> I am sure there are malicious entities out there feeding these >>> databases with junk for the fun of it too.. >>> >>> -- >>> Bill Lewis >>> Kijoma Broadband >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28/05/2014 11:16, Sinan Özşekerci wrote: >>> >>> I can’t understand why I have to spend time end effort to correct a >>> private company’s database and helping them to earn more money where >>> they don’t mind to harm buissness of other ones with distributing >>> false information about them. >>> >>> >>> >>> This comes to me like some kind of blackmailing, harming you in first >>> place and forcing you to help them serve better and make more money. >>> >>> >>> >>> In our case , maximind is showing the location of our IP subnets in >>> a “Village” which of the name is the same as our company just by >>> coincidence, and is hundreds of km away from our HQ, in a totally >>> different city. >>> >>> >>> >>> So all these algorithms and fancy ways they use to retrieve these >>> “more specific” data is crap for me. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> As a LIR , I only know RIPE, and since RIPE is the Authority, I >>> expect them to rely on their own database which has the information >>> that I have control on, and not to some 3th party moneymakers. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> Sinan ÖZŞEKERCİ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net >>> [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Edward Dore >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 12:41 PM >>> To: admin at intl-alliance.com >>> Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members >>> >>> >>> >>> The RIPE database is not primarily concerned with GeoIP data, it is a >>> registry of who specific IP address blocks are allocated to and how >>> they can be contacted. >>> >>> >>> >>> MaxMind may draw some of their GeoIP data from the the RIR databases, >>> but they also get a lot of it from elsewhere, which allows them to be >>> more specific than just the country code contained in the RIPE >>> database. >>> >>> >>> >>> Additionally, the RIPE database manual states the following for the >>> “country” field in the “inetnum” object: >>> >>> >>> >>> "It has not been specified what this country means. It cannot >>> therefore be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses to >>> countries" >>> >>> >>> >>> As a customer of MaxMind, I depend on them providing me with >>> accurate, useful information about the location and use of IP >>> addresses for fraud screening etc. If MaxMind were to draw that >>> information only from the RIPE database, then not only would MaxMind >>> be pointless (as I could just get the information directly from RIPE) >>> but the accuracy would be significantly reduced (country level >>> instead of city level) and it would be easy for people to game the >>> system simply by changing their objects in the RIPE database to contain false information. >>> >>> >>> >>> MaxMind do not “make up” their information, they calculate it from >>> multiple sources and this is what MaxMind customers are buying - data >>> derived from multiple sources and processed by MaxMind’s algorithms. >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously these algorithms are never going to be 100% accurate, which >>> is why if people believe that the data contained in the MaxMind >>> database is inaccurate then they can submit suggestions for >>> corrections which MaxMind will then evaluate. MixMind are under no >>> obligation to use any corrections submitted and are quite right to >>> reject them if they believe that they are inaccurate or misleading >>> for any reason. >>> >>> >>> >>> Accuracy of their database is important to MaxMinds’ customers and >>> thus to MaxMind. If their database is largely inaccurate, then it is >>> useless to their customers and MaxMind will lose business as a result. >>> Obviously it is therefore in MaxMind’s best interest to keep their >>> database as accurate and up to date as possible. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for the open proxy vs VPN, I can completely understand why MaxMind >>> could detect VPNs as open proxy servers and as a user of their >>> minFraud service I would expect to treat the two in exactly the same >>> way because they are providing an identical function - to obscure the >>> location and details of the end user. >>> >>> >>> >>> Edward Dore >>> Freethought Internet >>> >>> On 28 May 2014, at 10:02, admin at intl-alliance.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I depend on Maxmind using data obtained from a central registry. If >>> all ip tracing websites created their own databases with information >>> they made up, we wouldn't bother with the RIPE database any more >>> because it would become obsolete. We depend on ip tracing websites to >>> gather their information from authority sites, not the garbage they >>> produce on their own. And I'm only interested, as well as my >>> end-users, of seeing ip information that I've registered in the >>> appropriate places. Simply stating that "we're only interested in >>> end-user locations" rather than ip registration data, sits badly in >>> my mind. And it has also caught the attention of the RIPE NCC itself, >>> which just sent me the following email regarding this situation: >>> >>> Dear Jared, >>> >>> Thank you for your email. >>> >>> We value your concern about correct registration details for internet >>> resources. >>> >>> However the RIPE NCC has no authority on how private companies >>> compile their data and how much they take information from the RIPE >>> database in account. >>> Did you contacted MaxMind directly and informed them about the >>> mismatching information they provide? Because finally if information >>> are incorrect then this is not only damaging companies like yours but >>> also the reputation of the providers of this data. >>> >>> And I will forward your observation to my colleagues from the >>> stat.ripe.net team as there for Geolocation we are using data from >>> MaxMind. >>> https://stat.ripe.net/193.0.20.0#tabId=geo >>> >>> Then my colleagues will check if there could be any conflicting >>> information in our own tools. >>> >>> -- >>> Thank you again for bring up this topic. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Marco Schmidt >>> RIPE NCC >>> >>> >>> On 2014-05-28 09:52, Alfredo Sola wrote: >>> >>> That thought was kind of pointless after they refused to help. I've >>> spent hours on their site manually updating all of their inaccuracies >>> over the past few years. From one month to the next they can screw up >>> entire ranges with their monthly updates. My networks do not run >>> proxies period. I run vpn services and remote desktops, but never >>> proxies. And vpn services cannot be classified the same as open >>> proxies as they are totally different. >>> >>> >>> I think your issue is more a business model problem than >>> a registry or IP problem. >>> >>> What you are saying is that you depend on Maxmind >>> providing the location of your VPN servers / remote desktop servers >>> rather than the location of users computers connected to them. >>> Maxmind, on the other hand, is saying that they provide the location >>> of users if they can, or will mark the location as unknown. >>> >>> So your business model depends on Maxmind agreeing to >>> provide to their customers something which is not what they pay to >>> obtain. And they refuse. I personally don't think they can be blamed >>> for that, but that's something between your company and Maxmind. And >>> nothing in this has to do with RIPE. >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general >>> page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >>> From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general >>> page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >>> From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general >>> page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >>> From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> >> -- >> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >> message and including the text of the transmission received. >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > <Mail Attachment.eml><Mail Attachment.eml><Mail Attachment.eml>---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20140528/da1822a1/attachment.html>
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