[members-discuss] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board comments

*fully agree with erik*

ipv4 is obsolete and should not be used as a billing basis.

and indeed, if the "Average" is 2250/yr, that doesn't differ that much 
from what direct-pi-with-ripe non-lirs, small and extra small lirs pay 
anyway (guess there are not that many extra large lirs then ;)

so everyone-pays-the-same would make sense.
less overhead.

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011, Erik Bais wrote:

> Hi Nigel,
>
> To my understanding and as stated on the website, Ripe Ncc is a not for 
> profit org. Under Dutch law. Basically a 'vereniging' as we call that in 
> Dutch. the difference between a 'vereniging' and a Stichting 
> (Foundation) is that a stichting doesn't have members (according to the 
> Dutch IRS website).
>
> Both type of organizations can be under Dutch law free of profit 
> (income) tax. Called vpb tax (vennootsschapsbelasting) or corporate tax. 
> It depends if the goal of the organization is to make a profit. It is 
> allowed, but if you do, you need to pay vpb and you are not allowed to 
> divide the profit under its members. You can however reduce the cost for 
> the members to leverage that profit to a nil profit.
>
> The question that came to my mind was how a category model would alter the current tax situation. Or is that only the case in a pay per ip model ?
>
> If one would ( as I suggested ) go to a single fee per member and everyone is the same, regardless of size / color whatever. It would probably reduce the administrative hassle within the ripe ncc backoffice a lot, resulting also in a reduced membership fee.
>
> A fee structure based on an obsolete ( and almost depleted ) technology is soo 2000 ...
>
> We need to evolve and like with the transition to ipv6, change is good. Bite the bullet once and enjoy the result after work done.  How easy would it be to just divide the total budget across the total number of lirs and we all know what the cost for next year is.  ( roughly 17.5 Milj. Euro divided by 7746 members .. = 2250 euro cost per LIR ).
>
> My 2€cent on a sunny Sunday afternoon,
>
> Erik Bais
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-
>> bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nigel Titley
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 9:53 AM
>> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
>> Subject: [members-discuss] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board
>> comments
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I would like to update you about the RIPE NCC Executive Board
>> deliberations regarding the draft charging scheme for 2012.
>>
>> We presented you with two draft schemes, in early summer, to gather
>> feedback from you. We did this as we wanted to hear your opinions on
>> measures we want to take which are designed to keep the RIPE NCC
>> financially stable and capable of serving its members as it should.
>>
>> You engaged in a lively discussion on this mailing list, and even ran a
>> mini-survey. We followed the exchanges closely and as result asked
>> RIPE NCC staff to provide the board with another charging scheme
>> option,
>> based on a sliding scale scheme that eliminated the membership
>> categories we currently use.
>>
>> During the board meeting of last Friday, 23 September, we discussed the
>> merits as well as some of the issues of that model. Obviously a sliding
>> scale model as its main benefit does away with the fee jumps of the
>> category based model. We were pleased with the model that we developed
>> with the NCC staff and felt that it addressed many of the issues raised
>> by you, the members.
>>
>> However, in consultation with our tax lawyers we have had to think
>> again. Because it brings a "fee-per-address" flavour to the charging
>> model of the RIPE NCC it fundamentally alters the tax scheme under
>> which
>> we operate. The current "category" model allows us to argue that we are
>> a membership association with different categories  of membership. This
>> brings substantial tax advantages.
>>
>> As you know, for a long time the RIPE NCC tax situation has been
>> extremely favourable, as we don't have to pay corporation tax, based on
>> an agreement made with the Dutch tax authorities many years ago. We are
>> advised that the envisaged change in the charging scheme would lead to
>> a
>> re-assessment of that agreement, with the likely outcome that the
>> association's surplus would have to be taxed, leading to a significant
>> financial liability, with an obvious knock-on effect to the member
>> fees.
>>
>> In the light of this, the board members have agreed not to expose our
>> organisation to that risk, staying with a category based system. We
>> have
>> however noted your preference for reduced "fee jumps" between
>> categories, and have instructed NCC staff to produce a charging scheme
>> model based on 10 categories, doubling the current category number.
>> Category divisions will be based on a count of address space held.
>>
>> This revised Charging Scheme 2012 we will publish, as usual, prior to
>> the General Meeting in November, for approval by the members during the
>> General Meeting. We can advise you already that we are opening up the
>> voting mechanism for all resolutions to include electronic voting, so
>> that all members of the association have a good opportunity to take a
>> full part in the proceedings.
>>
>> At this time, I would like to thank you all, on behalf of the RIPE NCC
>> Executive Board, for participating in the discussion. I look forward to
>> seeing as many of you as possible at the next General Meeting.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Nigel Titley
>> Chairman
>> RIPE NCC Executive Board
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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