[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting

----------
> From: Andrew Stesin <stesin at gu.net>
> To: Sergey A. Mukhin <violet at rosnet.net>
> Cc: lir-wg at ripe.net; ncc at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
> Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 3:30 PM
> 
> On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote:
> 
> > On the other hand there is a tendency to a fast growing number
> > of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE
> > itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 	"Office" -- no problem, but not "RIR"!  How can RIPE
> 	establish a RIR without an agreement in the community
> 	of the region served?  RIR creation should be
> 	initiated by the representative community, not RIPE,
> 	or am I missing something?
> 
> > to be served there to get load off the main office. ( Not a
> > business of mine, I agree. ) Consider the size of fSU region.
> 
> 	fSU is not a region.  Please use non-political
> 	but geographical terms for defining region borders.
>  
> > A> 	Who else rises the hand?  Mr. Alexey Platonov (Moscow,
> > A> 	RosNIIROS), and Mr. Anatoly Kramer (Moscow, ??? -- who
> > A> 	doesn't even aware of what e-mail is, AFAIK) -- two men,
> > A> 	two Russian semi-governmental organisations, each wants
> > A> 	to establish a "big registry" in Moscow, and to extend the scope
> > A> 	of this RIR to adjucent countries, taking away any choice
> > A> 	of where to be served from those countries.
> > 
> > Well, and who was 'contra' except Ukraine?
> 
> 	Ok, but who was present but Russia and Ukraine?
> 	Russia was "pro", Ukraine was "contra".
> 	1:1

	Futher developments on the statistics. If anyone tries to sort out
opinions expressed in the discussion he or she should come up with
interesting results - the huge majority participating in this mailing list
are explicitly against, including LIRs not only in the FSU area, but LIRs
in other European countries. Here is the vote!

> 
> > awaiting for votes "contra". There were no more "contra" yet.
> 
> 	ripe-167 is way too unclear for everyone to get its
> 	main ideas in a moment.
> 
> > >> Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves.
> > 
> > A> 	This statement of yours contradicts directly with the
> > A> 	approach of ripe-167 document.
> > 
> > I am afraid you mistreat the approach.
> 
> 	I'm afraid that ripe-167 is just very unclear and uncertain
> 	at this point.
> 
> > >> But sometimes it is better to unite to get the solutions easier.
> > 
> > A> 	Would you mind explaining the benefits of uniting with you, please.
> > A> 	(Let's note that this last statement of yours has nothing close
> > A> 	to ripe-167's content at all).  No offense: friendship and
> > A> 	union are different things, aren't they?
> > 
> > I meant benefits of uniting .(point)
> 
> 	There are some benefits and some losses...
> 
> > If you suppose uniting of 
> > everybody but us, that sounds a bit odd, does not it?
> 
> 	I don't like the idea of *any* union with *anyone* until
> 	it will be though out carefully in all the details
> 	and everything will be obvious, certain and clear.
> 
> > A> 	Pretty simple: some people here in Ukraine (me among them)
> > A> 	have a strong feeling that some Moscow guys want to "unite"
> > A> 	us with them without taking our opinion into attentions.
> > 
> > I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare
> > free choice for all.
> 
> 	Would you mind pointing me at the written document where
> 	one can get a clear and certain statement of this?
> 
> > I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are
> > not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than
> > Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed.
> 
> 	Please leave alone this old crap about English/Russian
> 	language.  If you are a LIR (and RIR serves LIRs) you
> 	ought to know English, point.  If you don't know
> 	English, you are the customer of a LIR where staff
> 	is more knowlegeable.
> 

	I would suggest that the language problem should be removed at all as the
irrelevant issue. Everybody knows, regardless of whatever they say, that
the usage of English is inevitable. Apart from sending requests to the
hostmaster at ripe.net every tech person at any LIR should maintain some
objects in the database themselves using the auto-dbm at ripe.net. What
language are you supposed to use when submiting requests to a database
which, by the way, must be accessible and readable from anywhere in the
World? 

> 	Agreed?
> 
> >
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> >     Sergey A. Mukhin			|    violet at rosnet.net
> >     Network Administrator		|    http://violet.rosnet.net/
> >     Russian Telecommunications Network	|    Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15
> >     Moscow, Russia			|	  + 7 095 755 85 88
> >
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> > *     If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly.    
*
> >
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> > 
> 
> Best regards,
> Andrew Stesin
> 
> nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE
> 
>