Re: AW: [DENICenum-l] data point - anonymous E.164 number usage

[Sabine Dolderer/Denic <]

Hello Mr. Reith,

actually I am not a laywer an basically you are correct that it was a mobil
company filed the lawsuit but the justification of the court which reads

"Nach Auffassung des zuständigen 6. Senats sind sie nach den bisher
geltenden Vorschriften anders zu behandeln als die Verbraucher, die sich
mit einem Vertrag an einen Mobilfunkanbieter binden. Eine Verpflichtung der
Betreiber, auch für sie eine Kundendatei zu führen, verstößt nach
Auffassung des Senats gegen das in der Verfassung garantierte Recht des
Kunden auf informationelle Selbstbestimmung."

reads in my (not jurisdical founded) opinion that the storage of the data
by a mobil phone operater violates basic rights of the customer.

Sabine

On 27.02.2004 10:32 "Lothar Reith" <lothar.reith@localhost wrote:
>
>
>
> Hallo Frau Dolderer,
>
> ich glaube nicht, dass ihre Aussage korrekt ist / I do not think that
your
> following statement is correct:
>
> Your wrote:
> "interestingly in Germany the federal administartive court has decided in

> October 2003 that the storage of customer data for prepaid customers is
> illegal."
>
> "Rather, I beleive the federal administartive court has decided in
October
2003
> that it is not illegal not to store customer data for prepaid customers."

>
> Also, m.E. hat das Gericht entschieden, dass es nicht illegal ist, keine
> Kundendaten für Prepaid-Kunden zu erheben. Das ist etwas anderes, als zu
> behaupten, die Mobilfunknetzbetreiber würden etwas illegales tun.
>
> Lothar Reith
> Nortel Networks Germany
>
> Hahnstr. 37-39
> 60528 Frankfurt
> Tel: +49 69 6697 1304
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-enum-l@localhost [
	    
	    
] Im Auftrag von
Sabine
> Dolderer/Denic
> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2004 10:19
> An: Michael Haberler
> Cc: enum-l@localhost enum-trial@localhost enum-trials@localhost
> Betreff: Re: [DENICenum-l] data point - anonymous E.164 number usage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> On 26.02.2004 20:39 Michael Haberler mah@localhost wrote:
> >
> > In the context of validation of numbers for ENUM, I have tried to
> estimate
> the
> > amount of mobile users which have totally anonymously bought a prepaid
> SIM
> > card, or in other words, users of E.164 numbers which have no trace at
> all in
> a
> > phonebook or other records.
> >
> > In the EU, all countries except Germany, Hungary and Italy permit
> > totally
>
> > anonymous purchase of prepaid SIM cards.
>
> interestingly in Germany the federal administartive court has decided in
> October 2003 that the storage of customer data for prepaid customers is
> illegal. More on this issue (in German only)
>
>
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtml?url=/newsticker/meldung/41304&words=

> Vodafone%20Prepaid
>
http://www.bundesverwaltungsgericht.de/enid/90e62907f60c347c9d760c10ae10426f,097

> 6e07365617263685f646973706c6179436f6e7461696e6572092d0933353031/8o.html
>
> > This indicates that about 65% of the
> > EU population have access to anonymous mobile service (even in Italy,
> just a
> > taxpayer code is needed which is not subscriber data but allows to
> > track
> down
> a
> > user for law enforcement - but lets leave that out for the sake of
> argument;
> in
> > France I understand a record is made for purposes of recovering a lost
> SIM
> card
> > but not for proof of identity).
> >
> > There are about 400 Million mobile users in Europe, and penetration of
> prepaid
> > is about 40%. Assuming that nobody registers if he doesnt have to, and

> > multiplying those figures a ballpark estimate is that there are about
> > 100
>
> > Million E.164 numbers in use in Europe without any subscriber data
> > just
> through
> > the use of prepaid SIM cards.
> >
> > -Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Viele Grüße
> Sabine Dolderer
>
> --
> Sabine  Dolderer
> DENIC eG
> Wiesenhüttenplatz 26
> D-60329 Frankfurt
>
> eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
> Fon: +49 69 27235 0
> Fax: +49 69 27235 235
>
>
Viele Grüße
Sabine Dolderer

--
Sabine  Dolderer
DENIC eG
Wiesenhüttenplatz 26
D-60329 Frankfurt

eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
Fon: +49 69 27235 0
Fax: +49 69 27235 235