Re: AW: [DENICenum-l] data point - anonymous E.164 number usage

[Sabine Dolderer/Denic <]

Hello Mr. Reith,

actually I am not a laywer an basically you are correct that it was a mobil
company filed the lawsuit but the justification of the court which reads

"Nach Auffassung des zust�ndigen 6. Senats sind sie nach den bisher
geltenden Vorschriften anders zu behandeln als die Verbraucher, die sich
mit einem Vertrag an einen Mobilfunkanbieter binden. Eine Verpflichtung der
Betreiber, auch f�r sie eine Kundendatei zu f�hren, verst��t nach
Auffassung des Senats gegen das in der Verfassung garantierte Recht des
Kunden auf informationelle Selbstbestimmung."

reads in my (not jurisdical founded) opinion that the storage of the data
by a mobil phone operater violates basic rights of the customer.

Sabine

On 27.02.2004 10:32 "Lothar Reith" <lothar.reith@localhost wrote:
>
>
>
> Hallo Frau Dolderer,
>
> ich glaube nicht, dass ihre Aussage korrekt ist / I do not think that
your
> following statement is correct:
>
> Your wrote:
> "interestingly in Germany the federal administartive court has decided in

> October 2003 that the storage of customer data for prepaid customers is
> illegal."
>
> "Rather, I beleive the federal administartive court has decided in
October
2003
> that it is not illegal not to store customer data for prepaid customers."

>
> Also, m.E. hat das Gericht entschieden, dass es nicht illegal ist, keine
> Kundendaten f�r Prepaid-Kunden zu erheben. Das ist etwas anderes, als zu
> behaupten, die Mobilfunknetzbetreiber w�rden etwas illegales tun.
>
> Lothar Reith
> Nortel Networks Germany
>
> Hahnstr. 37-39
> 60528 Frankfurt
> Tel: +49 69 6697 1304
>
>
> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-enum-l@localhost [
	    
	    
] Im Auftrag von
Sabine
> Dolderer/Denic
> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2004 10:19
> An: Michael Haberler
> Cc: enum-l@localhost enum-trial@localhost enum-trials@localhost
> Betreff: Re: [DENICenum-l] data point - anonymous E.164 number usage
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> On 26.02.2004 20:39 Michael Haberler mah@localhost wrote:
> >
> > In the context of validation of numbers for ENUM, I have tried to
> estimate
> the
> > amount of mobile users which have totally anonymously bought a prepaid
> SIM
> > card, or in other words, users of E.164 numbers which have no trace at
> all in
> a
> > phonebook or other records.
> >
> > In the EU, all countries except Germany, Hungary and Italy permit
> > totally
>
> > anonymous purchase of prepaid SIM cards.
>
> interestingly in Germany the federal administartive court has decided in
> October 2003 that the storage of customer data for prepaid customers is
> illegal. More on this issue (in German only)
>
>
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/result.xhtml?url=/newsticker/meldung/41304&words=

> Vodafone%20Prepaid
>
http://www.bundesverwaltungsgericht.de/enid/90e62907f60c347c9d760c10ae10426f,097

> 6e07365617263685f646973706c6179436f6e7461696e6572092d0933353031/8o.html
>
> > This indicates that about 65% of the
> > EU population have access to anonymous mobile service (even in Italy,
> just a
> > taxpayer code is needed which is not subscriber data but allows to
> > track
> down
> a
> > user for law enforcement - but lets leave that out for the sake of
> argument;
> in
> > France I understand a record is made for purposes of recovering a lost
> SIM
> card
> > but not for proof of identity).
> >
> > There are about 400 Million mobile users in Europe, and penetration of
> prepaid
> > is about 40%. Assuming that nobody registers if he doesnt have to, and

> > multiplying those figures a ballpark estimate is that there are about
> > 100
>
> > Million E.164 numbers in use in Europe without any subscriber data
> > just
> through
> > the use of prepaid SIM cards.
> >
> > -Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Viele Gr��e
> Sabine Dolderer
>
> --
> Sabine� Dolderer
> DENIC eG
> Wiesenh�ttenplatz 26
> D-60329 Frankfurt
>
> eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
> Fon: +49 69 27235 0
> Fax: +49 69 27235 235
>
>
Viele Gr��e
Sabine Dolderer

--
Sabine  Dolderer
DENIC eG
Wiesenh�ttenplatz 26
D-60329 Frankfurt

eMail: Sabine.Dolderer@localhost
Fon: +49 69 27235 0
Fax: +49 69 27235 235