[diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items

I have the content already on the website ready to go, just not 
published - I can also hide it from the menu/navigation, so you'd need 
the direct link to find it. Would that be a good way forward?

On 16/05/2019 15:25, Brian Nisbet wrote:
>
> That would be amazing, Amanda, hmm, well, we don’t want to suddenly 
> start the discussion early due to people stumbling over it, before HPH 
> has at least got a chance to look at it, but I may be being over cautious?
>
> Brian
>
> Brian Nisbet
>
> Service Operations Manager
>
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>
> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
>
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
> *From:*diversity <diversity-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Amanda 
> Gowland
> *Sent:* Thursday 16 May 2019 14:07
> *To:* diversity at ripe.net
> *Subject:* Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
>
> And should I get the latest version from Google Docs and put it on the 
> website so it's easier to circulate?
>
> On 16/05/2019 15:06, Amanda Gowland wrote:
>
>     +1 to getting this circulated today
>
>     On 16/05/2019 15:03, Brian Nisbet wrote:
>
>         Sasha,
>
>         We absolutely don’t want people nit picking and wordsmithing
>         by committee just about works, it doesn’t by community.
>
>         I think we can put it out there and solicit a response, but it
>         will have to be framed as something that is happening, and
>         while it will be an open discussion, nor will every point be
>         addressed, but we as a TF (it’s absolutely not all on you at
>         all!) need to be able to justify our decisions.
>
>         So a lot of it will be, “Please provide any feedback, which
>         will be considered and possibly included in a 2^nd draft.” I’m
>         happy to lead that process on the mailing list, as others may be?
>
>         For me, the mandate will come from a general consensus of the
>         community. The accountability… to the RIPE Chair and (soon to
>         exist) Vice-Chair? Or to the Exec Board? I’m hoping others
>         might have some thoughts here as well.
>
>         There does have to be some appeal (and the groups above might
>         work, with the Vice-Chair position in existence it might cover
>         some of the problems with a potential Chair being in violation
>         of the CoC?), but I haven’t got anything better than the
>         existing structures and all of them have some issues, so which
>         are the least bad.
>
>         I’m very worried, given it’s the Friday before the meeting,
>         that really presenting this at RIPE78 is going to be
>         difficult. But given there were no objections, I think what I
>         can do today is formally present the text as is to HPH and see
>         what he reckons. (It doesn’t have to be me, at all, but I’m
>         happy to do it.)
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         Brian
>
>         Brian Nisbet
>
>         Service Operations Manager
>
>         HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>
>         1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>
>         +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>         <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> www.heanet.ie
>         <http://www.heanet.ie>
>
>         Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
>         *From:*diversity <diversity-bounces at ripe.net>
>         <mailto:diversity-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Sasha Romijn
>         *Sent:* Tuesday 14 May 2019 19:51
>         *To:* diversity at ripe.net <mailto:diversity at ripe.net>
>         *Subject:* Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
>
>         Hi Brian,
>
>         I think these are good next steps. I am a bit concerned about
>         how to handle the response from the wider community. We indeed
>         don’t want dozens of e-mails nitpicking every word, and this
>         is a document where that risk is more significant than your
>         average RIPE document. Also because there is a limited amount
>         of time and energy I can put into responding and explaining
>         things - responding to comments from 8 people on this list is
>         still quite doable, but if there’s going to be 40 people
>         commenting on the RIPE list, there’s limits to what I can and
>         will do. Unless someone starts funding my work.
>
>         So, some thought in advance about how we could smoothen this
>         process would be useful. I have no ideas.
>
>         Regarding the CoC team structure, mandate, process, etc.,
>         there will be questions if we circulate the text without this
>         covered, so we’d need to explain that work on that is still
>         ongoing. I expect this may be a more controversial point for
>         the community, because it creates a new power structure that
>         does not entirely fall under existing structures.
>
>         Someone also raised, in the google doc comments, concerns
>         about an option for reconsideration of a decision by different
>         people, if someone feels the decision of the CoC team was
>         unjustified.
>
>         As I said in my recent e-mail, I have some early ideas about
>         the team layout - those are in no way fixed. But I don’t
>         really have any ideas on mandate, accountability, and at the
>         same time guaranteeing independence, preventing excessive
>         bureaucracy or fights on ripe-list about every CoC decision.
>         We do need to start working on this to have any chance of
>         putting something into operation by RIPE79.
>
>         Sasha
>
>
>
>
>             On 10 May 2019, at 10:51, Brian Nisbet
>             <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>>
>             wrote:
>
>             So, my thoughts on how we should proceed on all of this.
>             These are just thoughts btw.
>
>               * Present the full text to the RIPE Chair and discuss
>                 next steps
>               * Circulate the text to the community
>               * Possible LT at RIPE78
>               * Further input from the community
>               * Into operation for RIPE79
>
>             What I certainly don’t want is wordsmithing by the
>             community, nor would I expect the WG Chairs or the PC to
>             be the CoC team.
>
>             This is all pretty high level, but it’s a notion? I think
>             we would need Mirijam or Amanda to make sure that HPH has
>             some cycles to look at this over the next few days,
>             without rushing him?
>
>             Brian
>
>             Brian Nisbet
>
>             Service Operations Manager
>
>             HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>
>             1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>
>             +35316609040brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>             <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>www.heanet.ie
>             <http://www.heanet.ie/>
>
>             Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
>             *From:*Sasha Romijn <sasha at mxsasha.eu
>             <mailto:sasha at mxsasha.eu>>
>             *Sent:*Tuesday 7 May 2019 14:43
>             *To:*Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>             <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>>
>             *Cc:*diversity at ripe.net <mailto:diversity at ripe.net>
>             *Subject:*Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
>
>             Hi,
>
>             The draft is waiting for me to merge some more suggested
>             changes and fix some things raised in the thread.
>
>             If all goes well, I can wrap that up this week.
>
>             Based on the responses on the draft, we seem to mostly
>             agree on it otherwise.
>
>             As Amanda said, there is still the question of the CoC
>             team, which handles CoC incidents, and how they get a
>             mandate. I have some*_rough_*thoughts on that.
>
>             As I’ve argued before, I think this role should not rest
>             with the WG chairs or with the RIPE chair. The best option
>             is likely a specific CoC team. Considering the structure
>             of this community with a mix of online spaces and
>             conferences, my first thought is one team, of which at
>             least 4 people should be present and available at any RIPE
>             meeting. Attending (all) RIPE meetings should not be a
>             requirement, as RIPE meetings are not accessible to all,
>             so it would be exclusionary. Having a single team helps
>             some continuity, ongoing development, and consistency.
>
>             I’m not sure whether we should retain the trusted contacts
>             as a separate team. I guess that could be very confusing.
>
>             The team needs to have an independent mandate, which
>             includes measures like banning of a person from a
>             conference, or terminating an ongoing talk.
>
>             Regarding who should be in it, I’m not sure how to work
>             that out within the governance models of the RIPE
>             community. In Django, the first CoC committee was formed
>             ages ago, and mostly consisted of people involved in
>             introducing the CoC at the time. The committee
>             self-governs, asking for new volunteers when needed. The
>             committee has a mandate from the board of the Django
>             Software Foundation, and is also accountable to them. That
>             board is in turn elected by the membership of that
>             foundation. So in general there is self-management and
>             delegation of mandate, but with accountability and
>             reporting. The board can intervene if needed. I believe
>             the Python Software Foundation has or is working on a
>             similar model.
>
>             CoC team members also need to know what they’re getting
>             into, and ensure they have sufficient availability.
>             Especially on-site at a meeting, action may need to happen
>             fast. Which means being reachable and able to change plans
>             suddenly. Also, CoC work can be emotionally intense.
>             Sometimes it’s really hard to decide whether it’s a
>             violation and what should be done, sometimes incidents
>             occur that are very serious and have a heavy impact. A lot
>             of empathy work is involved. It also means your own
>             behaviour is under the heaviest scrutiny of pretty much
>             anyone at the conference, because as a team member you set
>             the example of what is acceptable. This extends to every
>             interaction related to the conference. It means you
>             absolutely can not get a bit drunk at the party and blurt
>             out a few sexist jokes - if we fail to set an example, the
>             process falls apart (the #1 reason for me not to report
>             incidents is because I don’t trust the response team).
>             And, not everyone will like every decision you make, so
>             especially team members from minority groups are at an
>             increased risk of abusive behaviour from others.
>
>             For training my first choice:
>             https://otter.technology/code-of-conduct-training/
>
>             I have not followed this training myself yet, but I have
>             universally heard good things about it.
>
>             (And CoC team members should not be required to pay out of
>             pocket for this, as that would be exclusionary.)
>
>             So, a big question is: within the processes of the RIPE
>             community, how does a CoC response team get a mandate? To
>             whom is it accountable and how? Can it self-manage members?
>
>             And also essential: we should prevent the CoC team from
>             being dragged into months of discussion for every
>             decision, just because one or two people who don’t like it
>             stir up discussion on a mailing list - I do see this as a
>             potential risk in the RIPE community due to its structure.
>             Also, no process may depend on a single person.
>
>             (I will not be attending RIPE78 btw)
>
>             Sasha
>
>
>
>
>
>                 On 7 May 2019, at 15:00, Brian Nisbet
>                 <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>                 <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>> wrote:
>
>                 Folks,
>
>                 I'm just wondering, where do we, collectively, believe
>                 the action item (or similar) lies at present with the
>                 draft for the new CoC.
>
>                 From my reading there was an amount of feedback
>                 provided, but is the draft at a point where it can be
>                 officially shared with HPH, other stakeholders and the
>                 community, or is there more work to do? We have under
>                 two weeks before RIPE78 begins and I worry that we
>                 aren't in a good place to share our work (while
>                 absolutely noting that people might be waiting for me
>                 to do something?).
>
>                 Thanks,
>
>                 Brian
>
>                 Brian Nisbet
>                 Service Operations Manager
>                 HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research
>                 Network
>                 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>                 +35316609040brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>                 <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>www.heanet.ie
>                 <http://www.heanet.ie/>
>                 Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
>
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