[db-wg] Fwd: Geofeed purpose

Maria, Colleagues

I think there is still some confusion here. I am not questioning the
process of updating a legal document. You said "'THE' proposed
amendments have to be first presented to the Executive Board". But no
one knows what 'the' proposed update is. Let me summarise the last 9
months regarding geofeed.

-At RIPE 85 the chairs agreed there is a consensus that using the RIPE
Database for geolocation information is an agreed purpose of the RIPE
Database. We asked if anyone in the community could suggest some
wording for the new purpose definition.[1]

-Over the next few months no one suggested anything. I put forward a
possible wording in April 2023 to start a conversation.[2] We ended
up, after a short discussion, with 3 suggestions for the wording. No
consensus was agreed on any final wording. The legal team said you are
working on an analysis.

-In May 2023 the legal team published their analysis.[3] In that you said:
"looking at the proposed text, our advice is to make this more
explicit and explain why personal data may be processed for the
purpose of geolocation."
"we will discuss internally how we can make it explicit when adding a
geofeed attribute that the privacy of the users of the related
resources is respected."

-In July 2023 you said "Our intention is to submit the proposed
amendments to the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions for the Executive
Board's review and approval at their next meeting".[4]

It is not clear now what text you intend to present to the board for
their consideration. It depends on which version you started with and
if the legal team revised it. So if you can publish the text for a
geolocation purpose that you plan to present to the board we can be
sure everyone is on the same page. We don't want to wait until the
board meeting in October, have a text agreed by the board, then
someone in the community says "that's not what I had in mind". Then we
are back to square one and another year has gone by.

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

[1] https://ripe85.ripe.net/archives/video/966/
[2] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2023-April/007798.html
[3] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2023-May/007820.html
[4] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2023-July/007870.html

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 at 12:12, Maria Stafyla <mstafyla at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Denis,
>
> The proposed amendments have to be first presented to the Executive Board.
>
> As per the 'Adoption Process for RIPE NCC Corporate Documents', if the Executive Board decides that feedback from the membership or RIPE community is required, the document will be published as a draft and will be shared with the members or the RIPE community via the appropriate mailing lists.
>
> Maria
>
> On 26/07/2023 15:15, denis walker wrote:
>
> Hi Maria
>
> Thanks for this. Just to remind everyone, can you publish the final
> proposed amendments that you are going to put to the board.
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 at 11:54, Maria Stafyla <mstafyla at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Denis,
>
> This is still in progress.
>
> Our intention is to submit the proposed amendments to the RIPE Database
> Terms
> and Conditions for the Executive Board's review and approval at their
> next meeting, which
> is going to take place in October 2023.
>
> Kind regards,
> Maria
>
> On 19/07/2023 19:54, denis walker wrote:
>
> Hi Maria
>
> "> On the implementation side, we will discuss internally how we can
> make it explicit when adding a geofeed attribute that the privacy of
> the users of the related resources is respected."
>
> How are these internal discussions progressing? Do you have any suggestions yet?
>
> ">We will work on updating the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions in
> order to specify this. In line with the Adoption Process for RIPE NCC
> Corporate Documents, the proposed amendments will have to be approved
> by the RIPE NCC Executive Board."
>
> Has the Exec Board considered this yet?
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
>
> On Fri, 19 May 2023 at 16:27, Maria Stafyla <mstafyla at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Denis, all,
>
> To recap the discussion on this topic: after it was first suggested to introduce geofeed as a new attribute in the RIPE Database, we raised some legal concerns related to its implementation and suggested that technical restrictions are required to minimise the associated legal risks. The main concerns arose because providing geolocation information, including geolocation information that might contain personal data, is not covered under the current purposes of the RIPE Database.
>
>  From the discussion on the RIPE Database Working Group mailing list prior to RIPE 85, various feedback was provided on the use of geolocation information and the reasons for which this is useful for network and content operators. At the RIPE 85 Database Working Group session, the Working Group chairs declared there was consensus that geolocation is a purpose the RIPE Database has to fulfil. They also asked for input on the process to follow for amending the current RIPE Database Terms and Conditions and working on a draft purpose. A draft purpose has now been suggested, along with the question of whether this addresses all legal concerns and if we can go ahead with the implementation of the geofeed attribute.
>
> Having established that geolocation is a purpose and looking at the proposed text, our advice is to make this more explicit and explain why personal data may be processed for the purpose of geolocation. We will work on updating the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions in order to specify this. In line with the Adoption Process for RIPE NCC Corporate Documents, the proposed amendments will have to be approved by the RIPE NCC Executive Board.
>
> On the implementation side, we will discuss internally how we can make it explicit when adding a geofeed attribute that the privacy of the users of the related resources is respected. This is necessary because, as mentioned in our previous replies, although the RIPE NCC is not the party inserting the data in the csv file, legally we are co-responsible for the information inserted in the RIPE Database (even if it is not hosted there directly). As with all the other personal data in the RIPE Database, the party that enters it has the responsibility to inform the individual to whom the data pertains and to obtain their explicit consent before entering it (Art. 6.3 RIPE Database Terms and Conditions).
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Maria Stafyla
> Senior Legal Counsel
> RIPE NCC
>
> On 25/04/2023 11:25, Maria Stafyla wrote:
>
> Hi Denis, all
>
> This is to confirm that we are already working on our analysis and we will get back to you as soon as possible.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Maria Stafyla
> Senior Legal Counsel
> RIPE NCC
>
> On 13/04/2023 12:29, denis walker wrote:
>
> Colleagues
>
> A question for the legal team at the RIPE NCC. Would a simple purpose,
> as suggested below, address all the concerns you had about the use of
> the "geofeed:" attribute and allow you to remove any restrictions you
> felt were necessary when it was introduced?
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: denis walker <ripedenis at gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 at 10:41
> Subject: Geofeed purpose
> To: Database WG <db-wg at ripe.net>
>
>
> Colleagues
>
> The conversation on deploying geofeed died shortly after RIPE 85. The
> last comment was from myself asking if anyone was willing to propose
> some wording for a new purpose covering the use of the RIPE Database
> for geolocation information. No one proposed any wording. So below I
> have made a proposal for a new purpose. Your comments are appreciated.
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
>
> The RIPE Database contains information for the following purposes:
>
>       Ensuring the uniqueness of Internet number resource usage through
> registration of information related to the resources and Registrants
>       Publishing routing policies by network operators (IRR)
>       Facilitating coordination between network operators (network
> problem resolution, outage notification etc.)
>       Provisioning of Reverse Domain Name System (DNS) and ENUM delegations
>       Providing information about the Registrant and Maintainer of
> Internet number resources when the resources are suspected of being
> used for unlawful activities, to parties who are authorised under the
> law to receive such information.
>       Scientific research into network operations and topology
>       Providing information to parties involved in disputes over
> Internet number resource registrations to parties who are authorised
> under the law to receive such information.
>
>
> Providing information about the geolocation usage of Internet number resources.