[db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country

Hi Denis, Arash and all,

Just a thought, maybe we could redefine the RIR extended delegated file format to incorporate both cc values of inet(6)num|autnum and organisation Whois objects like this:

registry|xx|type|start|value|date|status|yy-custodianid

Where:

xx = country code of inet(6)num|autnum

yy = country code of organisation

This will require agreement among the RIRs and some adjustments by the relying parties, but provides a clearer mapping between Whois objects and the stats file records. My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Sanjaya


________________________________
From: db-wg <db-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of ripedenis--- via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 10:52:12 PM
To: DB-WG <db-wg at ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country

Hi Arash

If many organisations are using these values then, unfortunately, you are basing decisions on meaningless values.

The country attribute in resource objects is undefined. Users can set this to any country they wish with no meaning to anyone reading the value from the database.

>From the description of the extended delegated stats file
ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt

it says this about the country code:

Format:

         registry|cc|type|start|value|date|status[|extensions...]

    registry  = One value from the set of defined strings:

                        {apnic,arin,iana,lacnic,ripencc};

    cc        = ISO 3166 2-letter country code, and the enumerated
                variances of

                        {AP,EU,UK}

                These values are not defined in ISO 3166 but are widely used.

                The cc value identifies the country. However, it is not specified
                if this is the country where the addresses are used.
                There are no rules defined for this value.
                It therefore cannot be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses
                to countries

If you were to sync the stats file with resource object data you are in effect setting an undefined field in the stats to an undefined value from the database.

The purpose of NWI-10 is to create a well defined country value in both the stats file and the ORGANISATION object. The legal location of an organisation is currently the only well defined country information available. There is no information available anywhere in the database or stats file telling you where a network is being used.

cheers
denis

co-chair DB-WG

On Friday, 1 November 2019, 05:37:28 CET, Arash Naderpour via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:


Hi,

I'm new to DB-WG, but want to express my opinion in this regard,
from problem definition:
"Historically the country code was used to refer to the location of the network"

There are plenty of organization out there that are already set their network and firewalls rules to use country code value in delegation file as reference to the location of the network.

Changing the rule to to something new, will cause problem for clients and providers, so I don't think it is a good idea,
country code in delegation file can be synced with the country code for resource object in RIPE DB.
A new attribute in organization object refers to where the resource holder is legally based is totally fine, but having the same value in delegation file can break networks and services.

Regards,

Arash Naderpour
Parsun Network Solutions
________________________________
From: db-wg <db-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of ripedenis--- via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 10:52:12 PM
To: DB-WG <db-wg at ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country

Hi Arash

If many organisations are using these values then, unfortunately, you are basing decisions on meaningless values.

The country attribute in resource objects is undefined. Users can set this to any country they wish with no meaning to anyone reading the value from the database.

>From the description of the extended delegated stats file
ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt

it says this about the country code:

Format:

         registry|cc|type|start|value|date|status[|extensions...]

    registry  = One value from the set of defined strings:

                        {apnic,arin,iana,lacnic,ripencc};

    cc        = ISO 3166 2-letter country code, and the enumerated
                variances of

                        {AP,EU,UK}

                These values are not defined in ISO 3166 but are widely used.

                The cc value identifies the country. However, it is not specified
                if this is the country where the addresses are used.
                There are no rules defined for this value.
                It therefore cannot be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses
                to countries

If you were to sync the stats file with resource object data you are in effect setting an undefined field in the stats to an undefined value from the database.

The purpose of NWI-10 is to create a well defined country value in both the stats file and the ORGANISATION object. The legal location of an organisation is currently the only well defined country information available. There is no information available anywhere in the database or stats file telling you where a network is being used.

cheers
denis

co-chair DB-WG

On Friday, 1 November 2019, 05:37:28 CET, Arash Naderpour via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:


Hi,

I'm new to DB-WG, but want to express my opinion in this regard,
from problem definition:
"Historically the country code was used to refer to the location of the network"

There are plenty of organization out there that are already set their network and firewalls rules to use country code value in delegation file as reference to the location of the network.

Changing the rule to to something new, will cause problem for clients and providers, so I don't think it is a good idea,
country code in delegation file can be synced with the country code for resource object in RIPE DB.
A new attribute in organization object refers to where the resource holder is legally based is totally fine, but having the same value in delegation file can break networks and services.

Regards,

Arash Naderpour
Parsun Network Solutions
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