NCC#2001014534 WHOIS-Database .at-Domains (fwd) de.aball (fwd) X-NCC-RegID: de.aball (fwd)

  Dear Andreas Jennen!

>Subject: Re: NCC#2001014534 WHOIS-Database .at-Domains (fwd) de.aball (fwd)
>         X-NCC-RegID: de.aball (fwd)

>please answer my questions idown in my text !

  I'll try ;-)

>Will i have soon 20 hdl ?

  Maybe...
  (unless the community succeeds to get the mess sorted out again. 
   Any help - including yours - would be appreciated ;-)

>Is that, what you wanted ?

  Definitely: NO.
  For a few more comments, see below, marked "****"

  Regards,
  Wilfried (DB-WG chair)
  
PS: and by the way, shouting at innocent people like NCC staff is not
    necessarily the best approach to get problems resolved in the
    Internet...
  ______________________________________________________________________

>----- Forwarded message from RIPE NCC Hostmaster -----
>
>Message-Id: <200101121426.PAA15401 at x60.ripe.net>
>To: jennen at aball.de
>Subject: Re: NCC#2001014534 WHOIS-Database .at-Domains (fwd) de.aball (fwd) X-NCC-RegID: de.aball 
>In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:46:46 +0100.
>             <200101052146.WAA20734 at sonne.aball.de> 
><References: <200101052146.WAA20734 at sonne.aball.de> 
>From: RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster at ripe.net>
>X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
>X-Phone: +31 20 535 4444
>X-Fax: +31 20 535 4445
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:26:11 +0100
>Sender: hostmaster at ripe.net
>
>
>Hi Andreas,
>
>This change was agreed by the Database Working Group. If you have a
>problem with this decision please raise it on the <db-wg at ripe.net>
>mailing list or at the working group meeting during this month's
>meeting.

**** This problem was already on the DB-WG Meeting during RIPE37,
     September 2000. It might again get put onto the DB-WG Meeting agenda
**** for RIPE38, January 2000.

>Sorry to have upset you - have a good weekend.
>
>
>                            Regards,
>
>                       ------------------- 
>                         Geoff Charters
>                       Ripe NCC Hostmaster
>                       ------------------- 
>
>"QUICK TIPS FOR REQUESTS": <http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/tips/tips.html>      
>
> In the previous mail Andreas Jennen <jennen at aball.de>, wrote:
> * 
> * from Andreas Jennen
> * jennen at aball.de
> * x-NCC-RegID: de.aball
> * 
> * Dear hostmaster,
> * 
> * what a hell why is this ? See below
> * 
> * Is this correct, what *.at need ?
> * 
> * One handle for every European contry, where i am admin of an domain ?
> * 
> * Before i was in Europe and also USA:
> * 
> * AJ4-RIPE
> * 
> * now i need 20 or 30 handles ?
> * 
> * Why is RIPE so stupid ?

**** A few clariciations should be helpful here. There is

     . RIPE
     	the "community", the users, some working groups run by
	 volunteers, some eMail lists, some meetings - and there is the 

     . RIPE NCC
        a service organisation with a well-defined mandate, an activity
	plan, and customers like the LIRs.
	
     While RIPE (the community) is discussing Internet issues in general,
     coming up with recommendations and consensus, this RIPE is not the
     "Internet Police".  Nor is the RPE community authoritative for
     everything that is happening in CyperSpace.
     
     While RIPE (the community) is regularly interacting with the RIPE NCC
     (receiving support from and providing guidance to the RIPE NCC), the
     RIPE *NCC* is an autonmous organisation, which by consensus of the
     community (and not the least supported by the financial backing of
     it's members and customers!) is *responsible* and *authoritative* for
     . *IP-Adress distribution*,
     . ReverseDNS delegation for the relvant parts of the inverse tree,
     . and a couple of other things which is outlined as community service
       in the activita plan.

     The RIPE NCC (and RIPE, btw.) is NOT authoritative for any ccTLD
     administration issues!

     Indeed, for coordination issues regarding ccTLDs (mostly in Europe),
     another organistion was formed and has taken responsibilty (CENTR,
     see their info pages at http://www.centr.org/). nd CENTR is workling
**** within the framework of ICANN/IANA.

> * 
> * Whatfor we pay 2100 Euro every jear ?
> * 

**** I guess for the services as extended by the RIPE NCC according to
**** your customer and membership agreement???

> * Please also give the national domain organisation like e.g.
> * Denic
> * 
> * the order to take our full Ripe handles as nic-hdl.

**** Neither the RIPE NCC, nor any of the RIPE Working Groups would have
     any authority to do so. The Organisations you are pointing fingers at
     can accept input and guidance, and usually they do, but they also
     have to operate according to their existing administrative, legal and
     financial framework, and responsibility to their constituencies.
     
     It would certainly be helpful if you could summarize your concerns
**** and forward them to the relvant channels (e.g. CENTR)!

> * 
> * e.g.
> * whois -h whois.ripe.net AJ4-RIPE
> * 
> * RIPE says:
> * 
> * % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-servic
> * es/db/copyright.html
> * 
> * person:      Andreas Jennen
> * address:     aball Internet Netzdienste GmbH
> * address:     Roscherstr. 10
> * address:     D-30161 Hannover
> * address:     Germany
> * phone:       +49 511 270 737-0
> * fax-no:      +49 511 69 90 91
> * e-mail:      jennen at aball.de
> * nic-hdl:     AJ4-RIPE
> * notify:      quardian at aball.de
> * mnt-by:      ABALL-NCC-MNT
> * changed:     knocke at nic.de 19941214
> * changed:     knocke at nic.de 19950103
> * changed:     jennen at aball.de 19990623
> * changed:     jennen at aball.de 20000621
> * source:      RIPE
> *  
> * whois -h whois.denic.de AJ4-RIPE
> * the denic says:
> * 
> * % Copyright (c)2000 by DENIC
> * %
> * % Restricted rights.
> * %
> * %
> * % Except for agreed Internet operational purposes, no part of this
> * % information may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or
> * % transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical,
> * % recording, or otherwise, without prior permission of the DENIC
> * % on behalf of itself and/or the copyright holders. Any use of this
> * % material to target advertising or similar activities are explicitly
> * % forbidden and will be prosecuted. The DENIC requests to be notified
> * % of any such activities or suspicions thereof.
> * 
> * person:      Andreas Jennen
> * address:     aball Internet Netzdienste GmbH
> * address:     Roscherstr. 10
> * address:     30161 Hannover
> * address:     DE
> * e-mail:      jennen at aball.de
> * nic-hdl:     AJ4-RIPE
> * changed:     lastchange at denic.de 20000621
> * source:      DENIC
> * 
> * that is not the same, we do not see> notify. mtn-by, history
> * 
> * That is nonsence !
> * 
> * 
> * Are you not able to let work an domain whois server for Europe ?

**** I am perfectly convinced that the RIPE NCC would be capable of
     engineering and operating such a service.
     Although, for the moment at least, the prerequisites (like community
     consensus, financial support, and obvious solutions to the massive
**** scaling issues) are not in place.

> * No, then i will say on the next meeting, that the RIPE organisation
> * should change to an new and better and cheaper organisation !

**** Well, you might be able to provide RIPE (the community) with guidance
     on how to become a new and better organisation, but I doubt that it
     is going to be cheaper - because participation in RIPE (the community)
**** is for free :-)
  
**** Assuming that you intend to provide input to the RIPE NCCs activity
     plan and funding model, then you should use the established channels
     (talking to the RIPE NCC's management, membership mailing list, NCC
**** General Assembly,...)

> * If you don not want to answer this request, please give it to your
> * General Manager !
> * 
> * 
> * Gruss Andreas Jennen.
> * -- / \__      Festverbindungen auch 34 MBit/s und 155 MBit/s  erhaeltlich
> *   (    *\___  <- Nando,Andreas Jennen, Roscherstr. 12, 30161 Hannover, DE
> *   /         O EMAIL jennen at aball.de Voice: (+49 511)270 737-0, Fax:699091
> *  /   (_____/  Pos(Grad, Minuten): N 52 18.559';E 009 35.714' Hoehe: 112 m 
> * /_____/   U   http://www.aball.de            Privat: http://www.jennen.de
> * 
> * 
> * ----- Forwarded message from whois-info at nic.at -----
> * 
> * From whois-info at nic.at Fri Jan  5 20:51:41 2001
> * From: whois-info at nic.at
> * Message-ID: <645525DACC86A945B4DA2B199D8481F64412BA at nics-01.sbg.nic.at>
> * To: jennen at aball.de
> * Subject: WHOIS-Database .at-Domains
> * Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:48:24 +0100 
> * X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
> * X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sonne.aball.de id UAA
> * 20098
> * 
> * Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren!
> * 
> * Sie erhalten folgende Information von nic.at, da Sie als Kontaktperson
> * (tech-c oder zone-c) einer .at-Domain eingetragen sind.
> * 
> * This is an information from nic.at to all contacts (tech-c and zone-c) of
> * .at-domains. To view the english version please click here:
> * www.nic.at/english/whois_info.html. Please note your nicat-handle below.
> * 
> * Aus administrativen Gruenden kann die Organisation Ripe (www.ripe.net) ihre
> * Datenbank nicht mehr zur Speicherung von Domain-Daten ("Whois"-Abfragen) zur
> * Verf|gung stellen.
> * nic.at wird daher die relevanten Daten aus der Ripe-Datenbank absiedeln und
> * lokal verwalten. Die Funktionalitaet und Wartung von Domains ist damit in
> * keinster Weise beeintraechtigt.  Die Domain-Daten sind weiterhin (auch |ber
> * www.ripe.net) oeffentlich abrufbar und sicher verwaltet - es wird lediglich
> * bei Abfragen direkt auf die nic.at-Datenbank zugegriffen.
> * 
> * Im Zusammenhang mit dieser Umstellung werden alle bestehenden Ripe-Handles
> * bei .at-Domains automatisch durch NICAT-Handles ersetzt. Nach einer
> * Uebergangsphase wird nic.at bei Neuregistrierungen und Aenderungen nur noch
> * NICAT-Handles akzeptieren. Beruecksichtigen Sie das bitte, falls Sie
> * Ripe-Handles in Ihrer internen Software zur Verwaltung von .at-Domains
> * verwenden.
> * Sollten Sie Ihr Ripe-Handle f|r andere Ripe-Services benutzen, bleibt er
> * nat|rlich bestehen und ist bei Ripe weiterhin g|ltig.
> * 
> * **********************************************************
> * Ihr 'alter' Ripe-Handle/your old ripe-handle: AJ4-RIPE
> * Ihr neuer NICAT-Handle/your new nicat-handle: AJ552432-NICAT
> * **********************************************************
> * 
> * Folgender Zeitplan ist f|r die Umstellung vorgesehen:
> * ab 12.1.2001 kvnnen  NICAT-Handles verwendet werden - es sind Ripe-Handles
> * UND NICAT-Handles gueltig. Alle domain objects, die davor angelegt oder
> * geaendert wurden, werden im alten Format ausgegeben. Alle neuen domain
> * objects, erzeugt durch Neuantrag oder Aenderung werden im neuen Format
> * ausgegeben. Eine Aenderung bewirkt, dass das Object in der Ripe Datenbank
> * geloescht wird und das in Object in der nic.at-Datenbank zum Tragen kommt.
> * ab 29.1. gelten bei nic.at nur mehr NICAT-Handles, die .at-Domain Objects
> * werden in der Ripe-Datenbank geloescht. Bitte verwenden Sie ab 29.1. keine
> * RIPE-Handles mehr! Bis zum Ende der Loeschaktion kann es zwei Ausgabeformate
> * (alt oder neu) geben.
> * 
> * Eine detaillierte Beschreibung der Aenderungen in den Domain und Person
> * Objects finden Sie auf unserer Homepage unter
> * (www.nic.at/german/whois_info.html), FAQ's zum Thema Whois unter
> * www.nic.at/german/whois_FAQ.html. 
> * 
> * Bei weiteren Fragen kontaktieren Sie bitte das nic.at Team unter 0800 800
> * 888 844 bzw. per E-Mail unter whois-info at nic.at
> * Wir helfen Ihnen gerne weiter. 
> * 
> * Ihr nic.at Team 
> * 
> * nic.at Internet Verwaltungs- und Betriebsgesellschaft m.b.H.
> * Jakob-Haringer-Stra_e 8
> * A-5020 Salzburg
> * 
> * Infos zu Domainregistrierung www.nic.at
> * 
> * E-Mail: whois-info at nic.at
> * Tel.: +43 (662) 4669-844
> * Fax: +43 (662) 4669-29
> * In Oesterreich gebuehrenfrei:
> * Tel.: 0800 800 888-844
> * Fax: 0800 800 888-29
> * 
> * ----- End of forwarded message from whois-info at nic.at -----
> * 
> * ----- End of forwarded message from Andreas Jennen -----
>
>----- End of forwarded message from RIPE NCC Hostmaster -----