Re: spam-tools?

[Sabri Berisha <]

On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Paul Wouters wrote:

[ I didn't know journalists were on this list too ]

> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Sabri Berisha wrote:
>
> > > ORBS ( http://www.orbs.org/ ) is R.I.P. and I think this is good as it
> > > tested my relays regardless that I did not want ORBS to test my relays ever.
> >
> > If you do not operate an open relay I see absolutely no reason to object
> > to those scans.
>
> There are enough horror stories of ORBS everyone on this list knows. The
> most simple and stupid thing of ORBS was that people could submit IP's,
> and they would test and block it within the hour. If you've ever done a
> emergency mail server migration, and was knee deep in DNS and MS hell,
> the last thing you need is to have one of your IP's blocked because a
> spammer and an ORBS user found your temporary mail server.

AFAIK ORBS used to list 30 days after they had send a warning mail to the
site administrator. The fact that you are choosing MS software is no
excuse for operating an open relay. If you are working on a new
mailserver, use a firewall.

> > > So ORBS did an illegal action in my point of view and I don't want illegal
> > > things to happen in Internet.
> >
> > If ORBS would scan you with the intent do send unsolicited bulk email
> > through your server you would have a point.
>
> Port scanning is in violation of some telecommunication laws and even more
> AUP's.

ORBS did not portscan. ORBS has tested mailservers which have been
nomitated by third parties who had reasons to think those servers were
open relays.

> > Please do note that where you read "ORBS" you could read any other
> > relaytester which tests with the purpose of informing *you* of any
> > misconfigurations and therefor protecting *you* against your own possible
> > stupidity.

> The difference is that systems like RBL only block you after they are
> convinced the admin can't or doesn't want to be reached. Instead of cutting
> you down, they actually try to *help* you fix any problems.

Argh! Why do so many people get in the RBL/ORBS flame? Did you see me
ranting agains RBL?

> Also stupidity is a very relative term. For instance, migrating and allowing
> all local IP's to relay through your mailserver, opens up a subtle hole in
> that mail sent to old MX records (so old mailserver) gets a fully granted
> relay to the new mail server (because local IP is trusted), so people
> tend to forget that portforwarding during a DNS waiting time opens them
> up to spammers and ORBSlike actions.

What would you refer to as an "ORBSlike" action?

> Now, I don't MIND people telling me this, but to immediately ensure
> that a percentage of my users no longer can send or receive email for
> this is plain stupid and wrong.

Woho... Strange to hear that from a man who blocks the mail for those same
users from over 10000 domains for personal reasons...

ORBS did not block you. Site administrators who choosed to use ORBS did.

And as I said before; if ORBS did not granted you a 30 day period to fix
your problems prior to fixing it; that's a *bad* thing and against their
own rules.

-- 
/* Sabri Berisha CCNA,BOFH,+iO        O.O        speaking for just myself
 * Join HAL!!: www.HAL2001.org ____oOo_U_oOo____ http://www.bit.nl/~sabri
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 *   Anonymous sysadmin - on IRC                                       */