[anti-abuse-wg] About whitelisting (was: UCEPROTECT DNSBL possibly abusive practice and RIPEStat Blacklist entries widget)

I feel the same. You cannot be neutral if you charge for a delisting.
Moreover it's obvious that the charging for delisting is there business
modell.

89CHF (about 80€) for a single ip in Level-1?! 249CHF Level-2 and 449CHF
Level-3. Sorry Esa, that's not a small fee. And even if they would
charge a fee, it's not ok. If we all agree with it it would open the
door for more and more blacklists to establish such a model. I think
everyone can imagine that your ip will be listed rather sooner than
later because they make money in such a way. So you cannot be a neutral
blacklist and nobody should accept and better, use, such blacklists.

I understand that the widget should give an overview about listings but
it doesn't make sense with just two lists and moreover one of them is
UCEPROTECT. If you want to be a neutral player you should extend the
widget (more sth like MXToolbox). If it's not possible the widget should
be set aside because you give UCEPROTECT a false legimacy (even if you
don't want that).

Am 05.03.21 um 13:25 schrieb Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg:
> I personally feel like it's impossible to have a neutral list if you
> charge for delisting.
>
> Regardless of what might be the best solution, I feel like there is no
> way* to do this that isn't subject to abuse.
>
> Like if your business model is getting fees for delist requests, it's
> going to be close to impossible to keep it neutral.
>
> * Within reason, like you come up with ideas as proof of donation to a
> charity if you want to have a filter against people spamming. But that
> will always have some issues too.
>
> -Cynthia
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:59 Esa Laitinen <esa at laitinen.org
> <mailto:esa at laitinen.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi!
>
>     Let me start saying that it seems to me that UCEPROTECT doesn't follow
>     their own stated policies. If it is so, it is a bad list. But I'd like
>     to discuss a principle here which I think I'd like to know
>     opinions of.
>
>     On 05.03.21 11:38, Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg wrote:
>     > As others have pointed out, even purely on a technical level,
>     they are
>     > not any kind of trustworthy source as paying to be delisted
>     creates a
>     > very bad incentive for them.
>
>     We have a situation where your IP address has landed in a DNSBL as
>     collateral damage. You're hosted in the same subnet with a
>     spammer, for
>     example, so it is an escalation listing.
>
>     Which one is preferable?
>
>     1. no chance of whitelisting your IP (as is the case with SORBS, and I
>     think many other DNSBL operators), so you either need to move out, or
>     convince the hosting provider to fix the issue
>
>     2. you can get a whitelisting done (possibly for a (relatively
>     small) fee).
>
>     Personally I'd prefer to have an option of 2. Having a small fee would
>     motivate me to talk with the hosting provider first, to get their act
>     together.
>
>
>     Let's forget how UCEPROTECT is messing up, let's discuss this as a
>     principle.
>
>
>     Yours,
>
>
>     esa
>
>
>     -- 
>     Mr Esa Laitinen
>     IM: https://threema.id/2JP4Y33R <https://threema.id/2JP4Y33R> or
>     https://signal.org/install <https://signal.org/install>
>     Skype: reunaesa
>     Mobile: +4178 838 57 77
>
>
>
-- 
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