[anti-abuse-wg] @EXT: RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

I second that

In fact there is much more than just codified law. For example most of
the international law ha never been codified, refereed to as customary
law, but is still enforceable in court.

What we re talking about here are so called Norms: Often non-binding,
Norms describe expected behavior. I give you a simple example: Ther is
now law, that say you must wash yourself. But try to to do so for a few
weeks, and then (once Covid-19 is over) go into a full bus and see what
happens.

This oversimplifies. But we can and should have norms that make the
internet function well. And in fact there are over 160 norms that
specifically apply to cyber space.

Even the UN (through the UN GGE and the OEWG, create norms for
responsible behavior in cyber space.

There is nothing that stops us from doing the same in this corner of
internet policy.

Neutrality does not imply the absence of values. If we want the internet
to be usable and safe for users, we need to come up with what is
acceptable behavior and what is not. There may be a time where these are
tested in court, but until then let's just make sure we give our best to
keep the internet safe and free from criminals.

Best
Serge



On 17.04.20 11:05, Marcolla, Sara Veronica wrote:
> Sure, respecting the legal framework is the basis of our legal systems,
> and abiding to rules and legal procedures is paramount. This said,
> private companies can themselves act in such a way to discourage
> criminals to take advantage of their resources, through having rules in
> place that disallow certain behaviours.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> * *
> 
> *Sara Marcolla*
> 
>  
> 
> *Europol - *O3 European Cyber Crime Centre (EC3)
> 
> www.europol.europa.eu <http://www.europol.europa.eu/>
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*Maxi <maxi at zeug.co>
> *Sent:* 17 April 2020 10:58
> *To:* Marcolla, Sara Veronica <Sara.Marcolla at europol.europa.eu>
> *Subject:* Re: @EXT: RE: [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Sara,
> 
> This is not a personal attack on you, but I would handle your request
> like every other request from the police -> Go get a court order. 
> 
>  
> 
> When the RIPE would decide to block off abusive behaviour with out
> external orders, wouldn’t that open the RIPE to stuff like: “Hey in our
> country this and this party is abusive, lets delete the resources of them”?
> 
>  
> 
> So no, I would not want the RIPE to make such decisions on her own. 
> 
>  
> 
> Maxi
> 
>  
> 
> Impressum:
> Zeug e.K.
> Hochstraße 15
> 92637 Theisseil
> 
> Inhaber: Maximilian Schieder
> 
> Telefon: 015678 572314
> E-Mail: maxi at zeug.co <mailto:maxi at zeug.co>
> 
> Registergericht:
> Amtsgericht Weiden in der Oberpfalz Registernummer: 
> HRA 2907
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>     On 17. Apr 2020, at 10:54, Marcolla, Sara Veronica
>     <Sara.Marcolla at europol.europa.eu
>     <mailto:Sara.Marcolla at europol.europa.eu>> wrote:
> 
>      
> 
>     Hi Maxi,
> 
>      
> 
>     Technical innovation can be harnessed for social good, but just as
>     readily for nefarious ends. This is truer of cybercrime than of
>     perhaps any other crime area. And cybercriminals are also getting
>     more aggressive. That’s why Europol and its partner organisations
>     are taking the fight to them on all fronts.
> 
>      
> 
>     Encouraging all members of the Internet community to join the fight
>     against crime is one of the objectives of the Cybercrime centre, and
>     working together with public-private partnerships is the best way to
>     achieve these results. If you are interested, you can find out more
>     on our official
>     website: https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-trends/crime-areas/cybercrime.
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     Kind regards,
> 
>     * *
> 
>     *Sara Marcolla*
> 
>      
> 
>     *Europol - *O3 European Cyber Crime Centre (EC3)
> 
>     www.europol.europa.eu <http://www.europol.europa.eu/>
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     *From:* anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net
>     <mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net>>*On Behalf Of *Maxi
>     *Sent:* 17 April 2020 10:43
>     *To:* anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
>     *Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC Executive Board election
> 
>      
> 
>     Hey,
> 
>     Is this the official point of view from Europol?
> 
>     If so, please have in mind that the RIPE NCC has to follow certain
>     court rules. The RIPE NCC should stay neutral, because only courts
>     could decide if something is illegal or not.
> 
>      
> 
>     //Maxi
> 
>      
> 
>     Impressum:
>     Zeug e.K.
>     Hochstraße 15
>     92637 Theisseil
> 
>     Inhaber: Maximilian Schieder
> 
>     Telefon: 015678 572314
>     E-Mail: maxi at zeug.co <mailto:maxi at zeug.co>
> 
>     Registergericht:
>     Amtsgericht Weiden in der Oberpfalz Registernummer: 
>     HRA 2907
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
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> 
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>     *******************
> 
>  
> 
> *******************
> 
> DISCLAIMER : This message is sent in confidence and is only intended for
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> Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant
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-- 
Dr. Serge Droz
Chair of the FIRST Board of Directors
https://www.first.org