[anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

now, one has to look at the reasons for the confusion and lack of
clarity on which resources powers abuse on the Internet

you also have to look at who absolutely dominates email on the planet

there are only two organisations that dominate email on the planet.

these same two organisations have never lost market share and day by
day, they continue growing and clawing percentage points out year by year.

they have almost become unstoppable.

they do not play by rules.

they are not nice.

they are not fair.

they want to have 100% and they are using their considerable resources
to achieve year on year growth.

even right now I am under business pressure from these same two
companies.

on the one hand they are aggressively spamming my user base.

on the other hand they are sending a lot of legit email.

all from the same singular ip numbers.

they circumvent my spam rulesets and specifically target delivery.

and they are rinse and repeat for many other independent email
operators.

again: they even use the exact same IP number to attack and to deliver
legit.

complaints? 

whahahaha /dev/nul.


On Tue, 29 May 2018 13:53:16 +0000
Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:

> Andre
> 
> 1 - yes and no - you need access to an SMTP server. 
> 2 - again - you need access to resources
> 
> I agree however that the domain without anything attached to it can't
> do anything 
> 
> The resources need IPs.. 
> 
> Re: RIPE whois - if there are inaccuracies you can report them to
> RIPE.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michele
> 
> 
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> https://www.blacknight.com/
> http://blacknight.blog/
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ 
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.:
> 370845
> 
> On 29/05/2018, 14:39, "anti-abuse-wg on behalf of ox"
> <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
> 
>     
>     Please correct me if you think I am wrong:
>     
>     1.
>     You cannot send spam without an IP number.
>     
>     2.
>     You cannot do any abuse without an IP number.
>     
>     
>     I can do a whois on any.com or some.eu and have a tech or abuse
> email address and WORKING registrar contact information.
>     
>     I cannot do a whois on ALL ripe assigned ipv4 resources and get
>     accurate and/or working resource contact information.
>     
>     
>     So, where the problem is - is easy to see, no?
>     
>     Andre
>     
>     
>     On Tue, 29 May 2018 15:12:27 +0200
>     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
> wrote: 
>     > I consider an abuse the fact of collecting emails and sending
>     > spam. Also, if you have a domain, you can see what IPs are
>     > related to it for other kinds of abuses.
>     > 
>     > Regards,
>     > Jordi
>     >  
>     >  
>     > 
>     > -----Mensaje original-----
>     > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de
>     > ox <andre at ox.co.za> Organización: ox.co.za
>     > Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 14:32
>     > Para: <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
>     > Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email
>     > abuse
>     > 
>     >     
>     >     Abuse has nothing to do with a domain name.
>     >     
>     >     Nobody can abuse anyone armed only with a domain name.
>     >     
>     >     Without using an actual IP number, a domain name can do
>     > nothing. 
>     >     Protecting the privacy of a domain registrant is absolutely
>     > correct. 
>     >     The trouble is that network operators are resistant to
>     > accept the responsibility (costs, issues, trouble) of managing
>     > abuse 
>     >     Even if you do a whois right now, you will find a functional
>     > registrar abuse email address.
>     >     
>     >     The same cannot yet be said for the resources assigned by
>     > this RR 
>     >     Andre
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     On Tue, 29 May 2018 14:00:44 +0200
>     >     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
>     > <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:   
>     >     > Whois, as everything in the life, has good and bad things.
>     >     > Against: Privacy invaded. In fact, when you register a new
>     >     > domain and you associate a visible email to it, in a
>     >     > matter of hours, you get spam.
>     >     > Pro: If it is a real email with humans behind, it
>     >     > facilitates the resolution of abuse cases.
>     >     > The balance is always difficult ...
>     >     > Regards,
>     >     > Jordi    
>     >        
>     >     > 
>     >     > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en
>     >     > nombre de Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>     >     > Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 13:49 Para: Suresh
>     >     > Ramasubramanian <ops.lists at gmail.com>,
>     >     > "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> Asunto:
>     >     > Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Even in those cases, whois is but one tool that helps
>     >     > identify bad actors by means of violating privacy rights
>     >     > of millions. There are other tools, like DNS traces,
>     >     > reviews of hosting infrastructures used, etc. all of
>     >     > which will continue to be available for the uses you
>     >     > refer to.
>     >     > 
>     >     > And maybe it is time to ensure law enforcement is better
>     >     > equipped to deal with such issues earlier and faster. Up
>     >     > to now, governments have been afforded the luxury of
>     >     > being able to underfund such efforts as others were doing
>     >     > their jobs for them. Maybe this will lead to better law
>     >     > enforcement and international cooperation.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Best,
>     >     > 
>     >     > Volker
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Am 29.05.2018 um 13:34 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian:
>     >     > 
>     >     > This unfortunately is entirely wrong and short sighted
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > All security practitioners protect our respective
>     >     > services and networks against a wide variety of threats
>     >     > including malware and phish campaigns.
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Very few of those go on to be referred to law enforcement
>     >     > and that only after an extensive dossier is built
>     >     > internally to show that the perps in question justify a -
>     >     > frequently cross border - law enforcement action.
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Security and protecting user privacy go hand in hand and
>     >     > I wish more people realised that, and maybe also realised
>     >     > the resource and administrative lconstraints and limits
>     >     > law enforcement is saddled with 
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on
>     >     > behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>     >     > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:06:18 PM To:
>     >     > anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR
>     >     > - positive effects on email abuse 
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is
>     >     > high with this one.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may
>     >     > be more difficult to detect and take action against due
>     >     > to the loss of one tool amongst many, but ultimately that
>     >     > tool was illegal to begin with as it violated the rights
>     >     > to privacy of millions of domain owners.
>     >     > 
>     >     > "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops
>     >     > will indeed have a more difficult time to obtain such
>     >     > data as they will finally have to do so by legal means,
>     >     > but then they are in an untenable position anyway, taking
>     >     > upon themselves functions that should be fulfilled by
>     >     > actual law enforcement.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being
>     >     > public will lead to better registration data for those
>     >     > with a right to access it. Those with no such rights will
>     >     > have to figure out alternate routes to do their jobs that
>     >     > does not violate the rights of millions.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Best,
>     >     > 
>     >     > Volker
>     >     > 
>     >     > 
>     >     > 
>     >     > Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:    
>     >     > > ox <andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
>     >     > >      
>     >     > >> Firstly I would like to comment that the
>     >     > >> multinationals and their funded trade groups (and
>     >     > >> their lobby orgs) shouted from the rooftops that if
>     >     > >> the GDPR came into effect, Internet in the EU would
>     >     > >> collapse and there would be digital doom and
>     >     > >> gloom.      
>     >     > > I am not a multinational.  I am an individual volunteer
>     >     > > anti-abuse researcher. And yet even -I- have told
>     >     > > everyone I know that the disappearance of public WHOIS
>     >     > > is and will be an epic catastrophy. If there was
>     >     > > cybercrime on the Internet before, it will be
>     >     > > increased, going forward, by tenfold.     
>     >     > >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can
>     >     > >> all clearly see)      
>     >     > > Be patient.  The change has only just occurred.
>     >     > >      
>     >     > >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in
>     >     > >> the reclamation of individual rights and the free
>     >     > >> Internet.      
>     >     > > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn
>     >     > > on Fox News in order to be treated to this level of
>     >     > > rubbish.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > The only thing that has happened is that private
>     >     > > researchers the world over have been effectively
>     >     > > blinded due to the supreme arogance and idiocy of
>     >     > > europeans... europeans who, in their religious fervor,
>     >     > > have come to view it as their holy obligation to foist
>     >     > > their demented notions onto the rest of the world,
>     >     > > whether any of the rest of us like it or not.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored
>     >     > > intrigue and violation of human rights are and shall
>     >     > > remain totally unfettered and unaffected by GDPR, as
>     >     > > they will be the first ones to obtain special
>     >     > > exemptions allowing them to continue to see WHOIS data.
>     >     > > The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are undoubtedly celebrating
>     >     > > the arrival of GDPR, as it further entrenches their
>     >     > > special status at the expense of the great unwashes
>     >     > > masses.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and
>     >     > > democracy, but all across the globe both criminals and
>     >     > > statists undoubtedly celebrated it with toasts of
>     >     > > champaign.
>     >     > >
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Regards,
>     >     > > rfg
>     >     > >      
>     >     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     > 
>     > 
>     > 
>     > **********************************************
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