[anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

Andre

1 - yes and no - you need access to an SMTP server. 
2 - again - you need access to resources

I agree however that the domain without anything attached to it can't do anything 

The resources need IPs.. 

Re: RIPE whois - if there are inaccuracies you can report them to RIPE.

Regards

Michele


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On 29/05/2018, 14:39, "anti-abuse-wg on behalf of ox" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of andre at ox.co.za> wrote:

    
    Please correct me if you think I am wrong:
    
    1.
    You cannot send spam without an IP number.
    
    2.
    You cannot do any abuse without an IP number.
    
    
    I can do a whois on any.com or some.eu and have a tech or abuse email
    address and WORKING registrar contact information.
    
    I cannot do a whois on ALL ripe assigned ipv4 resources and get
    accurate and/or working resource contact information.
    
    
    So, where the problem is - is easy to see, no?
    
    Andre
    
    
    On Tue, 29 May 2018 15:12:27 +0200
    JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
    
    > I consider an abuse the fact of collecting emails and sending spam.
    > Also, if you have a domain, you can see what IPs are related to it
    > for other kinds of abuses.
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    >  
    >  
    > 
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de ox
    > <andre at ox.co.za> Organización: ox.co.za
    > Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 14:32
    > Para: <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
    > Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
    > 
    >     
    >     Abuse has nothing to do with a domain name.
    >     
    >     Nobody can abuse anyone armed only with a domain name.
    >     
    >     Without using an actual IP number, a domain name can do nothing.
    >     
    >     Protecting the privacy of a domain registrant is absolutely
    > correct. 
    >     The trouble is that network operators are resistant to accept the
    >     responsibility (costs, issues, trouble) of managing abuse
    >     
    >     Even if you do a whois right now, you will find a functional
    > registrar abuse email address.
    >     
    >     The same cannot yet be said for the resources assigned by this RR
    >     
    >     Andre
    >     
    >     
    >     On Tue, 29 May 2018 14:00:44 +0200
    >     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
    > wrote: 
    >     > Whois, as everything in the life, has good and bad things.
    >     > Against: Privacy invaded. In fact, when you register a new
    >     > domain and you associate a visible email to it, in a matter of
    >     > hours, you get spam.
    >     > Pro: If it is a real email with humans behind, it facilitates
    >     > the resolution of abuse cases.
    >     > The balance is always difficult ...
    >     > Regards,
    >     > Jordi  
    >      
    >     > 
    >     > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de
    >     > Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Fecha: martes, 29
    >     > de mayo de 2018, 13:49 Para: Suresh Ramasubramanian
    >     > <ops.lists at gmail.com>, "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net"
    >     > <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR -
    >     > positive effects on email abuse
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > Even in those cases, whois is but one tool that helps identify
    >     > bad actors by means of violating privacy rights of millions.
    >     > There are other tools, like DNS traces, reviews of hosting
    >     > infrastructures used, etc. all of which will continue to be
    >     > available for the uses you refer to.
    >     > 
    >     > And maybe it is time to ensure law enforcement is better
    >     > equipped to deal with such issues earlier and faster. Up to
    >     > now, governments have been afforded the luxury of being able to
    >     > underfund such efforts as others were doing their jobs for
    >     > them. Maybe this will lead to better law enforcement and
    >     > international cooperation.
    >     > 
    >     > Best,
    >     > 
    >     > Volker
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > Am 29.05.2018 um 13:34 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian:
    >     > 
    >     > This unfortunately is entirely wrong and short sighted
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > All security practitioners protect our respective services and
    >     > networks against a wide variety of threats including malware and
    >     > phish campaigns.
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > Very few of those go on to be referred to law enforcement and
    >     > that only after an extensive dossier is built internally to
    >     > show that the perps in question justify a - frequently cross
    >     > border - law enforcement action.
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > Security and protecting user privacy go hand in hand and I wish
    >     > more people realised that, and maybe also realised the resource
    >     > and administrative lconstraints and limits law enforcement is
    >     > saddled with 
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf
    >     > of Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Sent: Tuesday,
    >     > May 29, 2018 4:06:18 PM To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
    >     > Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email
    >     > abuse 
    >     > 
    >     >  
    >     > 
    >     > Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is high
    >     > with this one.
    >     > 
    >     > Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may be
    >     > more difficult to detect and take action against due to the
    >     > loss of one tool amongst many, but ultimately that tool was
    >     > illegal to begin with as it violated the rights to privacy of
    >     > millions of domain owners.
    >     > 
    >     > "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops will
    >     > indeed have a more difficult time to obtain such data as they
    >     > will finally have to do so by legal means, but then they are in
    >     > an untenable position anyway, taking upon themselves functions
    >     > that should be fulfilled by actual law enforcement.
    >     > 
    >     > Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being
    >     > public will lead to better registration data for those with a
    >     > right to access it. Those with no such rights will have to
    >     > figure out alternate routes to do their jobs that does not
    >     > violate the rights of millions.
    >     > 
    >     > Best,
    >     > 
    >     > Volker
    >     > 
    >     > 
    >     > 
    >     > Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:  
    >     > > ox <andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
    >     > >    
    >     > >> Firstly I would like to comment that the multinationals and
    >     > >> their funded trade groups (and their lobby orgs) shouted
    >     > >> from the rooftops that if the GDPR came into effect,
    >     > >> Internet in the EU would collapse and there would be digital
    >     > >> doom and gloom.    
    >     > > I am not a multinational.  I am an individual volunteer
    >     > > anti-abuse researcher. And yet even -I- have told everyone I
    >     > > know that the disappearance of public WHOIS is and will be an
    >     > > epic catastrophy. If there was cybercrime on the Internet
    >     > > before, it will be increased, going forward, by tenfold.   
    >     > >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can all
    >     > >> clearly see)    
    >     > > Be patient.  The change has only just occurred.
    >     > >    
    >     > >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in the
    >     > >> reclamation of individual rights and the free Internet.    
    >     > > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn on Fox
    >     > > News in order to be treated to this level of rubbish.
    >     > >
    >     > > The only thing that has happened is that private researchers
    >     > > the world over have been effectively blinded due to the
    >     > > supreme arogance and idiocy of europeans... europeans who, in
    >     > > their religious fervor, have come to view it as their holy
    >     > > obligation to foist their demented notions onto the rest of
    >     > > the world, whether any of the rest of us like it or not.
    >     > >
    >     > > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored intrigue
    >     > > and violation of human rights are and shall remain totally
    >     > > unfettered and unaffected by GDPR, as they will be the first
    >     > > ones to obtain special exemptions allowing them to continue
    >     > > to see WHOIS data. The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are undoubtedly
    >     > > celebrating the arrival of GDPR, as it further entrenches
    >     > > their special status at the expense of the great unwashes
    >     > > masses.
    >     > >
    >     > > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and democracy, but
    >     > > all across the globe both criminals and statists undoubtedly
    >     > > celebrated it with toasts of champaign.
    >     > >
    >     > >
    >     > > Regards,
    >     > > rfg
    >     > >    
    >     >   
    >     
    >     
    >     
    > 
    > 
    > 
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