[anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

I consider an abuse the fact of collecting emails and sending spam. Also, if you have a domain, you can see what IPs are related to it for other kinds of abuses.

Regards,
Jordi
 
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de ox <andre at ox.co.za>
Organización: ox.co.za
Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 14:32
Para: <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

    
    Abuse has nothing to do with a domain name.
    
    Nobody can abuse anyone armed only with a domain name.
    
    Without using an actual IP number, a domain name can do nothing.
    
    Protecting the privacy of a domain registrant is absolutely correct.
    
    The trouble is that network operators are resistant to accept the
    responsibility (costs, issues, trouble) of managing abuse
    
    Even if you do a whois right now, you will find a functional registrar
    abuse email address.
    
    The same cannot yet be said for the resources assigned by this RR
    
    Andre
    
    
    On Tue, 29 May 2018 14:00:44 +0200
    JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
    
    > Whois, as everything in the life, has good and bad things.
    > Against: Privacy invaded. In fact, when you register a new domain and
    > you associate a visible email to it, in a matter of hours, you get
    > spam.
    > Pro: If it is a real email with humans behind, it facilitates the
    > resolution of abuse cases.
    > The balance is always difficult ...
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
     
    > 
    > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de
    > Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo
    > de 2018, 13:49 Para: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists at gmail.com>,
    > "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> Asunto: Re:
    > [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > Even in those cases, whois is but one tool that helps identify bad
    > actors by means of violating privacy rights of millions. There are
    > other tools, like DNS traces, reviews of hosting infrastructures
    > used, etc. all of which will continue to be available for the uses
    > you refer to.
    > 
    > And maybe it is time to ensure law enforcement is better equipped to
    > deal with such issues earlier and faster. Up to now, governments have
    > been afforded the luxury of being able to underfund such efforts as
    > others were doing their jobs for them. Maybe this will lead to better
    > law enforcement and international cooperation.
    > 
    > Best,
    > 
    > Volker
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > Am 29.05.2018 um 13:34 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian:
    > 
    > This unfortunately is entirely wrong and short sighted
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > All security practitioners protect our respective services and
    > networks against a wide variety of threats including malware and
    > phish campaigns.
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > Very few of those go on to be referred to law enforcement and that
    > only after an extensive dossier is built internally to show that the
    > perps in question justify a - frequently cross border - law
    > enforcement action.
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > Security and protecting user privacy go hand in hand and I wish more
    > people realised that, and maybe also realised the resource and
    > administrative lconstraints and limits law enforcement is saddled
    > with 
    > 
    >  
    > 
    >  
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of
    > Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 29,
    > 2018 4:06:18 PM To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
    > Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse 
    > 
    >  
    > 
    > Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is high with
    > this one.
    > 
    > Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may be more 
    > difficult to detect and take action against due to the loss of one
    > tool amongst many, but ultimately that tool was illegal to begin with
    > as it violated the rights to privacy of millions of domain owners.
    > 
    > "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops will indeed 
    > have a more difficult time to obtain such data as they will finally
    > have to do so by legal means, but then they are in an untenable
    > position anyway, taking upon themselves functions that should be
    > fulfilled by actual law enforcement.
    > 
    > Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being public
    > will lead to better registration data for those with a right to
    > access it. Those with no such rights will have to figure out
    > alternate routes to do their jobs that does not violate the rights of
    > millions.
    > 
    > Best,
    > 
    > Volker
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:
    > > ox <andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
    > >  
    > >> Firstly I would like to comment that the multinationals and their
    > >> funded trade groups (and their lobby orgs) shouted from the
    > >> rooftops that if the GDPR came into effect, Internet in the EU
    > >> would collapse and there would be digital doom and gloom.  
    > > I am not a multinational.  I am an individual volunteer anti-abuse
    > > researcher. And yet even -I- have told everyone I know that the
    > > disappearance of public WHOIS is and will be an epic catastrophy.
    > > If there was cybercrime on the Internet before, it will be
    > > increased, going forward, by tenfold. 
    > >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can all clearly
    > >> see)  
    > > Be patient.  The change has only just occurred.
    > >  
    > >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in the
    > >> reclamation of individual rights and the free Internet.  
    > > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn on Fox News
    > > in order to be treated to this level of rubbish.
    > >
    > > The only thing that has happened is that private researchers the
    > > world over have been effectively blinded due to the supreme
    > > arogance and idiocy of europeans... europeans who, in their
    > > religious fervor, have come to view it as their holy obligation to
    > > foist their demented notions onto the rest of the world, whether
    > > any of the rest of us like it or not.
    > >
    > > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored intrigue and
    > > violation of human rights are and shall remain totally unfettered
    > > and unaffected by GDPR, as they will be the first ones to obtain
    > > special exemptions allowing them to continue to see WHOIS data.
    > > The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are undoubtedly celebrating the arrival
    > > of GDPR, as it further entrenches their special status at the
    > > expense of the great unwashes masses.
    > >
    > > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and democracy, but all
    > > across the globe both criminals and statists undoubtedly celebrated
    > > it with toasts of champaign.
    > >
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > rfg
    > >  
    > 
    
    
    



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