[anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

Abuse has nothing to do with a domain name.

Nobody can abuse anyone armed only with a domain name.

Without using an actual IP number, a domain name can do nothing.

Protecting the privacy of a domain registrant is absolutely correct.

The trouble is that network operators are resistant to accept the
responsibility (costs, issues, trouble) of managing abuse

Even if you do a whois right now, you will find a functional registrar
abuse email address.

The same cannot yet be said for the resources assigned by this RR

Andre


On Tue, 29 May 2018 14:00:44 +0200
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:

> Whois, as everything in the life, has good and bad things.
> Against: Privacy invaded. In fact, when you register a new domain and
> you associate a visible email to it, in a matter of hours, you get
> spam.
> Pro: If it is a real email with humans behind, it facilitates the
> resolution of abuse cases.
> The balance is always difficult ...
> Regards,
> Jordi
 
> 
> De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de
> Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo
> de 2018, 13:49 Para: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists at gmail.com>,
> "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> Asunto: Re:
> [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
> 
>  
> 
> Even in those cases, whois is but one tool that helps identify bad
> actors by means of violating privacy rights of millions. There are
> other tools, like DNS traces, reviews of hosting infrastructures
> used, etc. all of which will continue to be available for the uses
> you refer to.
> 
> And maybe it is time to ensure law enforcement is better equipped to
> deal with such issues earlier and faster. Up to now, governments have
> been afforded the luxury of being able to underfund such efforts as
> others were doing their jobs for them. Maybe this will lead to better
> law enforcement and international cooperation.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Volker
> 
>  
> 
> Am 29.05.2018 um 13:34 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian:
> 
> This unfortunately is entirely wrong and short sighted
> 
>  
> 
> All security practitioners protect our respective services and
> networks against a wide variety of threats including malware and
> phish campaigns.
> 
>  
> 
> Very few of those go on to be referred to law enforcement and that
> only after an extensive dossier is built internally to show that the
> perps in question justify a - frequently cross border - law
> enforcement action.
> 
>  
> 
> Security and protecting user privacy go hand in hand and I wish more
> people realised that, and maybe also realised the resource and
> administrative lconstraints and limits law enforcement is saddled
> with 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of
> Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 29,
> 2018 4:06:18 PM To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse 
> 
>  
> 
> Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is high with
> this one.
> 
> Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may be more 
> difficult to detect and take action against due to the loss of one
> tool amongst many, but ultimately that tool was illegal to begin with
> as it violated the rights to privacy of millions of domain owners.
> 
> "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops will indeed 
> have a more difficult time to obtain such data as they will finally
> have to do so by legal means, but then they are in an untenable
> position anyway, taking upon themselves functions that should be
> fulfilled by actual law enforcement.
> 
> Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being public
> will lead to better registration data for those with a right to
> access it. Those with no such rights will have to figure out
> alternate routes to do their jobs that does not violate the rights of
> millions.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Volker
> 
> 
> 
> Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:
> > ox <andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
> >  
> >> Firstly I would like to comment that the multinationals and their
> >> funded trade groups (and their lobby orgs) shouted from the
> >> rooftops that if the GDPR came into effect, Internet in the EU
> >> would collapse and there would be digital doom and gloom.  
> > I am not a multinational.  I am an individual volunteer anti-abuse
> > researcher. And yet even -I- have told everyone I know that the
> > disappearance of public WHOIS is and will be an epic catastrophy.
> > If there was cybercrime on the Internet before, it will be
> > increased, going forward, by tenfold. 
> >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can all clearly
> >> see)  
> > Be patient.  The change has only just occurred.
> >  
> >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in the
> >> reclamation of individual rights and the free Internet.  
> > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn on Fox News
> > in order to be treated to this level of rubbish.
> >
> > The only thing that has happened is that private researchers the
> > world over have been effectively blinded due to the supreme
> > arogance and idiocy of europeans... europeans who, in their
> > religious fervor, have come to view it as their holy obligation to
> > foist their demented notions onto the rest of the world, whether
> > any of the rest of us like it or not.
> >
> > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored intrigue and
> > violation of human rights are and shall remain totally unfettered
> > and unaffected by GDPR, as they will be the first ones to obtain
> > special exemptions allowing them to continue to see WHOIS data.
> > The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are undoubtedly celebrating the arrival
> > of GDPR, as it further entrenches their special status at the
> > expense of the great unwashes masses.
> >
> > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and democracy, but all
> > across the globe both criminals and statists undoubtedly celebrated
> > it with toasts of champaign.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > rfg
> >  
>