[anti-abuse-wg] Recent List Discussion

Responding at Co-Chair's request.

Tobias Knecht, CEO of Abusix GmbH and Co-Chair of aa-wg-ripe, you are an expert on abuse protection. Please tell me how can I transform my "abuse CP" into a real protection against your protecting customer?

Do not need to answer. I'm just establishing a connection between your company that sells anti-abuse to Providers and a group that discusses abuse. Establishing a connection between aa-wg-ripe and a company that has its businesses dependent on Providers.

Tell me, Mr. Tobias, considering that there are bad ISPs who abuse the population, that there are bad ISPs who seek protection for illicit activities, that the bad ISPs will be armored by your company against the victims, you do not consider your position uncomfortable and inadequate in this group? This answer, if possible, would like to receive.

Brian wrote:
> You have made several utterly unfounded accusations about me and other 
> list members in the mail below.

In your opinion!

> I don't know who the customers are that 
> you keep referring to, 

This clash began when Andre claimed to be Hetzner's client. The name Hetzner and Martin Hetzner was constantly quoted in the exchange of messages. If you have not read these messages why are you accusing me of ad hominem attacks? Dude, you do not even know how to lie. You have a false speech but you are unable to hide your real intentions.

> but it isn't productive to anyone to continue to 
> have these conversations.

If it isn't productive to anyone to continue why you insist on sending repeated messages? Do you want to have the final say? Are you a censor or moderator?

> but also the list needs to be a useful resource and 
> discussion place for the community. 

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. The community you are referring to are RIPE customers. They do not need this group. They have support and protection from companies such as aa-wg co-chair Abusix.com.

RIPE, as a company, has social responsibility with society. It is the duty of the company to reduce the negative impacts of its activity in the community. Negative impacts generated not only by those who use their customers for illicit practices as by their bad customers. It is not about philanthropy but about an improvement in dealing with the community and responsible growth.
Just as it is the duty of the company to promote the diffusion of human values such as ethics - honesty and integrity. Do you understand this language?

So this group could never refuse to discuss the criminal actions of the bad Providers. This group should discuss ways to combat these actions and not invent false reasons to protect their peers. This unethical corporatism is predatory and dehumanized. The action of a bad Provider who practices spam and scam or who protects spammers and scammers is no different from the corrupt police officer who uses his authority to extort money from people. The difference is that the Provider does it on a much larger scale.

Rebury Milton Friedman and adopt the "triple bottom line". In short, be decent.

> So, if you will not respect other 
> members of the community then we will take action and remove you
> from the list.

SIR, YES SIR! You're wanting me to respect companies or people who have not respected me. People who acted, for months, with excess of mockery, excess of arrogance, excess of abuse and were accomplices of criminals. This infamous procedure does not suit me. I do not have cockroach blood in my veins and I do not share your morals.

> Please let me know your thoughts and whether you are willing to 
> engage in discussion without baseless accusations and ad hominem 
> attacks in the future.

Please?? My thoughts?? If you could read my thoughts you would hire private security.
Baseless?!? You're a joke. You lie too much. I challenge you to ask me to post, to the list, the baseless accusations.

Marilson


From: Brian Nisbet 
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 10:57 AM
To: Marilson 
Cc: tk at abusix.com 
Subject: Re: Recent List Discussion

Marilson,

I'm writing this to you off-list, but I'm doing so with the presumption 
that you will reply to the list. That is, of course, your right.

You have made several utterly unfounded accusations about me and other 
list members in the mail below. I don't know who the customers are that 
you keep referring to, but it isn't productive to anyone to continue to 
have these conversations.

As I have said repeatedly before I do not wish to ban anyone from the 
AA-WG mailing list, but also the list needs to be a useful resource and 
discussion place for the community. So, if you will not respect other 
members of the community then we will take action and remove you from 
the list.

Please let me know your thoughts and whether you are willing to engage 
in discussion without baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks in the 
future.

Brian
Co-Chair, RIPE Anti-Abuse WG

Marilson wrote on 31/05/2017 03:12:
> Brian,
>
> Please read this very carefully. There is no place on the World for
> people like you and your criminal partners, ISP owner.
> This is a list to discuss how to protect network abuse.
>
> Please consider your contributions to the list very carefully. You are
> not acting in the spirit of the Europe community nor are you providing
> useful content for good people, for honest people. Neither you nor the
> other members of the Pro-Abuse Working Group of R.O.T.T.E.N., ex-RIPE,
> with rare exceptions.
>
> I do not wish to have to take further action, ahhh I want to, and this
> email should be taken as a warning that if you continue to act as you
> have done until today, that action will be taken. You will have to
> explain why you are scandalized by words like bullshit - Nazi -
> criminal, but tolerate Nazi and criminal behavior of customer. Oh yeah,
> you're not police and customer behavior is not your responsibility,
> right? Nor reporting crimes is your responsibility, right? Your
> arguments do not hold. In the face of the gravity of the acts, your
> arguments are a joke.
>
> Surely that will not result in short term moderation of your behavior,
> but, regrettably, if necessary I will have to look at further steps such
> as to show that your anti-abuse is a joke of bad taste.
>
> Now, prove that you also do not tolerate the contradictory banning me.
> :)))))
>
> Marilson
>
> *From:* Brian Nisbet <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 29, 2017 10:26 AM
> *To:* Marilson <mailto:marilson.mapa at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Tobias Knecht <mailto:tk at abusix.com>
> *Subject:* Recent List Discussion
>
> Marilson,
>
> As I said on list and I have said before there is no place on the
> mailing list for ad hominem attacks, personal insults or accusations
> (really of any sort). This is a list to discuss how to deal with network
> abuse. It is not here for you to act in the way you have acted today.
>
> Please consider your contributions to the list very carefully. You are
> not acting in the spirit of the RIPE community nor are you providing
> useful content for the other members of the Anti-Abuse Working Group.
>
> I do not wish to have to take further action, but this email should be
> taken as a warning that if your posts continue to have the content they
> had today, that action will be taken. At the very least that will result
> in short term moderation of your posts, but, regrettably, if necessary
> we will have to look at further steps such as removal from the list.
>
> Brian
> Co-Chair, RIPE Anti-Abuse WG
>
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