[anti-abuse-wg] Fwd: Re: RBL policy

smtp is just one of many protocols out there, a primitive, fairly 
unimportant and severely lacking in terms of security one at that, and 
it's protection cannot be a reason for any disconnection -ever-.


On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:17, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
>
> and now it's time for everyone here, to stop giving stevieboy his way 
> with his absurd definitions of 'abuse'... if there is no law against 
> it in the country in which the customer recides. its no reason for 
> disconnection. doing so is not delivering a paid service, caving into 
> blackmail, and undermining provider immunity by caving in to any 
> random idiot that just so happens to have gained influence over mail 
> delivery,  and frequently abuses said (advertised) influence to commit 
> computer sabotage (he knows what the impacts of his listings are, he 
> advertises with it), to extort the internet industry into wasting 
> valuable manhours on him and his self-declared 'delisting procedure', 
> and breach valuable contracts.
>
> if he mentions any ip address (or worse: personal details) in his 
> crappy slander and blackmail system he calls 'spamhaus' just call the 
> feds on him. the guardia civil for example as he currently is in spain.
>
> viola 13
>
> puerta d' andratx.
>
> under no circumstance should 'spamhaus' be allowed to dictate which 
> customers to serve and which not. simple as that.
>
>
> now act PROFESSIONAL and stop giving this idiot his way just because 
> he mentions 'spam'. as if 'spam'
>
> is the worst thing that ever happened to the internet... how about him 
> trying to get entire isps disconnected. who gives a shit about him and 
> his 'spam'.
>
>
>
>
> On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:09, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
>>
>> one would almost go and set up a few 1000 smtp servers, all sending 
>> steve linford viagra offers, just to annoy the guy back. operational 
>> costs would go through the roof tho lol.
>>
>>
>> On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:04, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
>>>
>>> btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times 
>>> we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully 
>>> applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist 
>>> just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous 
>>> censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter'
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can 
>>>> think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. 
>>>> you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 
>>>> 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for 
>>>> inappropriate language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> @Sven Olaf:
>>>>> Please stop using this type of offensive language!
>>>>> This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and 
>>>>> attack in the way you are at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
>>>>>
>>>>> And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of 
>>>>> language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tobias
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> ​RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ​
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von 
>>>>> CyberBunker <svenk at xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit
>>>>>     carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can
>>>>>     be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone
>>>>>     combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of
>>>>>     their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need
>>>>>     for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8
>>>>>     <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside').
>>>>>     if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so
>>>>>     far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up
>>>>>     pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they
>>>>>>     arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job.
>>>>>>     i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp'
>>>>>>     is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker
>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way
>>>>>>>     is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in
>>>>>>>     fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old
>>>>>>>     services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should
>>>>>>>     get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay.
>>>>>>>     it's windows itself that is the malware there...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure
>>>>>>>     sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3
>>>>>>>     top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in
>>>>>>>     every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own
>>>>>>>     crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't
>>>>>>>     have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into
>>>>>>>     /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else
>>>>>>>     is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of
>>>>>>>     the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing
>>>>>>>     the sales department of the transit carriers of their
>>>>>>>     supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make
>>>>>>>     them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup
>>>>>>>     fees), etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     - a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4
>>>>>>>     'burned' ranges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     - smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     - smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     - smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip
>>>>>>>     addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers
>>>>>>>     in the world, no wonder!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp.
>>>>>>>     congratulations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time
>>>>>>>     and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in
>>>>>>>     bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no
>>>>>>>     users left. people only start it up to read ripe
>>>>>>>     mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks...
>>>>>>>     because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port
>>>>>>>     25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit-
>>>>>>>     (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our
>>>>>>>     problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause
>>>>>>>     'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable
>>>>>>>     markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv
>>>>>>>     station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500
>>>>>>>     euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i
>>>>>>>     certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k
>>>>>>>     once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like
>>>>>>>     child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent
>>>>>>>     issue at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling
>>>>>>>     over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn
>>>>>>>     copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture
>>>>>>>     there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your
>>>>>>>     crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even
>>>>>>>     -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place,
>>>>>>>     and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for
>>>>>>>     malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates
>>>>>>>     all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly
>>>>>>>     implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft
>>>>>>>     and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the
>>>>>>>     european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft.
>>>>>>>     simple enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von
>>>>>>>     CyberBunker wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn
>>>>>>>>     of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals,
>>>>>>>>     cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption
>>>>>>>>     technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc
>>>>>>>>     is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is
>>>>>>>>     none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as
>>>>>>>>     spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'.
>>>>>>>>     even if they think they should be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering
>>>>>>>>     'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of
>>>>>>>>     their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them
>>>>>>>>     others choose not to work against their own
>>>>>>>>     stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs
>>>>>>>>     department to keep said products outside. can't tell others
>>>>>>>>     not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty
>>>>>>>>     front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into
>>>>>>>>     the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very
>>>>>>>>     nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's
>>>>>>>>     disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh
>>>>>>>>     but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they
>>>>>>>>     rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and
>>>>>>>>     calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     what also works, besides blackmailing with committing
>>>>>>>>     computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers
>>>>>>>>     of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website,
>>>>>>>>     are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange.
>>>>>>>>     etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if
>>>>>>>>     you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after
>>>>>>>>     all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't
>>>>>>>>     block anything' as they themselves always say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von
>>>>>>>>>     CyberBunker <svenk at xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent
>>>>>>>>>         servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we
>>>>>>>>>         happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus
>>>>>>>>>         somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that
>>>>>>>>>     the listing works!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     esa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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