[anti-abuse-wg] RBL Discussion Update

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 12:36:17 +0000
HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk at xs4all.nl> wrote:
<snip snip>
> 7: their DROP list is a bgp feed to several parties, which results in 
> UNREACHABILITY between affected networks, without the user's on those 
> network's consent. examples: stormfront, torrentfreak (and by adding
> so, according to their own propaganda, they make public that the isp, 
> according to them, would run hijacked ranges - not according to 
> companies house but hey..)
> 8: they look at some he.net statistics on % of transit obtained from 
> which parties, and then conclude that the larger ones of those are 
> subject to the same harrassment until they turn the bgp session of.
> 9: list bgp session ip of transit carriers and larger peers
> 10: lists /24 that session ip is in
> 11: lists the network of their office if they can find it
> 12: lists everything that transit has
> calling the transit carriers 'a crime gang /spammers /spam
> supporters' along the way, in links in the bounced mails (TXT record
> in their dnsbl botnet)
> 
nothing you have said changes:

* it is still a free choice to use any list
* lists are only as powerful as the trust given
* and, lists are needed (as you have also agreed)

Your problem is with a specific list. And you could have made any/your
case with one or two paragraphs, and by adding an actual example, etc.

Even if you do that, at this point, it will be mostly ignored as noise. 

As it stands now, you look like a marketer for Spamhaus... - Have you
noticed that nobody from Spamhaus is even saying anything? Your
behavior and posts are great publicity for them.

Andre


> --------------------------
> 
> as you can see there is a SLIIIIGHHT difference between a normal
> dnsbl, and terrorist organisation spamhaus. i haven't noticed any of
> the other 110's -existance- let alone have been listed on any of them
> (That i noticed) over the past 20 years or so. it's only when we
> actively went looking that it turned out that there were some more of
> those things. none of which ever posed a problem to us.
> 
> now. it's quite  simple, spamhaus sabotages our connectivity, we 
> sabotage theirs. and we don't give a flying fuck if half the internet 
> goes down with that. simple ay.
> 
> that's the deal.
> 
> 
> On 01 فبر, 2017 م 12:24, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
> > as stated... you can use those rbls however much you like. however. 
> > the influence of said rbls into the functioning of protocols can
> > never be used to -force- into breach of contracts, like spamhaus
> > does. by listing irrelevant-to-the-alledged-abuse SUPPLIERS
> >
> > (listing the isp itself already falls under that catagory, but as
> > we stated before, we don't care about -that-. things might look
> > different with other carriers that -do- use email however ;)
> >
> > it's not the 'listing' that caused spamhaus to be ddossed off the 
> > surface of the planet, it was -them- blackmailing our SUPPLIERS. 
> > namely, at that time, tata communications, t-net/tiscali, and they 
> > attempted it with kpn. before that: a2b, grafix, level3, and a
> > whole list of others over a period of, ehm well as long as spamhaus
> > has been around.
> >
> > we don't exactly plan on spending a week in a hotel near some
> > transit pop, pay interconnect fees, and setup fees, every fucking
> > time spamhaus decides to blackmail one of our suppliers, capiche?
> >
> > they can list the ranges that are part of -our- network, we don't
> > give a shit, their users won't get any mail from us, that isn't
> > being sent anyway so who cares.
> >
> > listing the networks the mailservers of the sales departments of 
> > multinational corporations that provide IP transit, in order to 
> > illegally blackmail them into breach of contract (which they
> > usually do or else spamhaus slanders them as 'spam supporters' +
> > they can't send mail, and -they do- use smtp) is -well beyond- the
> > intended uses and purposes of a dnsbl.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 01 فبر, 2017 ص 10:47, ox wrote:
> >> On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 10:23:07 +0000
> >> HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >>> On 01 فبر, 2017 ص 05:10, ox wrote:
> >>>> For those that do use smtp, and to identify those isps that
> >>>> refuse to stop abusing others, there needs to be a list.
> >>>>
> >>> that's all very cute... as long as that 'list of isps' would
> >>> remain
> >> <snip snip>
> >>> going 'spamhaus is now listing OUR networks, our sales department
> >>> can't send mail to 1/3rd of the world and they demand we
> >>> disconnect
> >> luckily for you, smtp is dead and non important to you - so you can
> >> Facebook your clients :)
> >>
> >> Personally, I do not want emails from people (isps) who enable
> >> kiddie porn, spam, phish or other rubbish - so I CHOOSE to use RBLs
> >> that I trust and that I know are operated fairly and ethically.
> >>
> >> If isps want to be paid for pushing packets they need to take
> >> responsibility fro what they are pushing (CONTENT) - pushing child
> >> pornography, slavery and a whole buch of evil is simply not
> >> acceptable.
> >>
> >> It is not acceptable to say: I push traffic and I do not care what
> >> it is or how it is destroying little kids or the lives of innocent
> >> people.
> >>
> >> Andre
> >>
> >>
> >
>