[anti-abuse-wg] Definition of Abuse - preamble

On 08/25/2016 04:38 PM, ox wrote:
> ...
> I did not reply to this, as it will involve me being somewhat direct but,
>
> I have a serious problem with people when they disagree just to argue
> or for no real reason.

Hmm.. I still do not see any arguments against my abuse
definitions except: no, I want mine.

You are getting somewhat emotional here - no good.

>
> This means that they have a different intent - or agenda - or something
> and it serves only to disrupt 
>  

My intent is to have a most broad definition of abuse as possible.
You seem to intentionally want to restrict this definition. I just
don't know why. But if other members of this list tend more
to your definition, it will be fine for me.

>>>> I even doubt that the anti-abuse-working-group is limited to
>>>> network based abuse. Entering wrong registration data (let's say by
>>>> FAX) could also be covered by this group though it is not a network
>>>> based abuse.
>>>>
> This is not an abuse group for battered men or battered women or abused
> animals.

What are you talking about? Yes, this group is not about animals, I agree ..
but what the heck..?


>
> It is a network abuse group.
>
> No, it is not an abuse group for people whose pc's has been stolen or
> abused in their homes.
>
> No, it is not an abuse group for old fax machines or faxing of fake
> documents to anyone or even for that matter faxing of documents to
> commit fraud.
Says who?  You are, as I do, a member of this mailing list and
therefore a standard member of the anti-abuse-working-group.  As far
as I know you are no chair nor co-chair of this group and you
are not in the position to define what to discuss in this group or not.
(neither am I)

I don't care if abuse is commited by old or new fax machines; if it
somehow involves our/any abuse-department I do care. And if I (or
i.e. legal authorities)  cannot identify a fraudster because of a fake
registration (DNS, IP-Allocation, whatsoever..) than I do see a direct
relation to this group, regardless of the used technique.

So yes, it *might* be the case that a fax triggers an abuse case.

I don't want to talk about fax machines all the time - I just want
a definition of abuse and of the goals of this group which *allows*
me  and others to discuss abuse incidents regardless of the terms
"internet abuse" or "a second resource". I don't think, that
this wish is that abstruse..



>It is the RIPE Anti Abuse WG --- We discuss network abuse....
Well, I do not see very much discussing here - just a very "blocking"
attitude.



tl;dr:
I prefer a very broad definition of abuse not restricted to "internet abuse"


best greetings,

Gunther

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