[anti-abuse-wg] Definition of Abuse

On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:14:36 +0300
Sergey <gforgx at fotontel.ru> wrote:

> Are you *really* discussing what is abuse instead of dealing with it?

Hi Sergey,

Thank you for pointing that out.

yes, how does one deal with "abuse"  - we cannot even agree what it is?

Does society simply say to the person or organisation that hijacked a
resource: "bad bad people! - give that resource here and go away!"

or, I am going to null route your traffic! your child pornography is
"abuse" and selling those poor children, so very bad - no more routing
for you on my network! that will teach you!

abuse, as a word means to misuse something.

nothing to do with child slavery, theft, hijacking, and/or other crimes

Anyway, we are then still here: 

"The non sanctioned use of a resource to infringe upon the usage rights
of another resource"

How that relates to spam for example - you are using your resources to
infringe upon my bandwidth as your traffic is unsolicited rubbish that
nobody wants.

Then, damage is not abuse, abuse is the actual action, damage is the
result of the action

Andre

> 
> Yes, that is really gonna turn into a stand-up comics...
> 

> 
> On 08/16/16 16:08, ox wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:38:49 +0200
> > David Hilario <fransossen at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> And when it comes to the definition discussed in this thread:
> >>>      "The non sanctioned use of a resource to infringe upon the
> >>> usage rights of another resource"
> >> The RIPE NCC has also been quite active in that aspect too:
> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-662#----1-1-registry-maintenance-----strategic-focus-point-2016
> >>
> > Thank you for highlighting that "abuse" is decreasing. But,
> > unfortunately, I do not know what abuse is, yet.
> >
> > I want to distinguish between crime and abuse. this will make it
> > easier in the future for Law enforcement, Prosecutors, Courts and
> > society to understand that : Joe hijacked an IP range and this
> > could be a crime, not just "abuse"
> >
> > For one, I do not agree that unauthorized access is abuse (yet) I
> > think it may be a crime in many countries, it may not be allowed in
> > terms of each of our 'terms & conditions' of our own offerings or
> > products and it is not tolerated, loved or even appreciated in any
> > sane society, but is is not abuse.
> >
> > Abuse itself, as a word in the English language is to "use
> > something to bad effect or;
> > to use something for bad purpose or;
> >   the improper use of something or;
> > treating something poorly or badly,
> >
> > not breaking into something
> > or stealing and/or hijacking something
> >
> > When you steal/hijack something and then use that for abuse, that
> > becomes abuse.
> >
> > If you just steal something, it is a crime called theft, which I am
> > sure is illegal almost everywhere (afaik)
> >
> > Maybe you can help, David?
> >
> > When RIPE investigates "abuse" what are they investigating? Crimes?
> > Criminal activity? Fraud? or actual abuse?
> >
> > Andre
> >
> >
> >
> >> "1.1.6 Internet Number Resource Investigations, and Dispute and
> >> Hijacking Handling
> >>
> >> Status: Decreasing
> >>
> >> Measurable usage: The RIPE NCC has investigated  252 potential
> >> hijacks since 2012. From 1 July 2014 to 30 June 2015 the RIPE NCC
> >> handled 85 investigations. The RIPE NCC received and investigated
> >> 572 abuse reports from 1 July 2014 2014 to 30 June 2015."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >>> --srs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 15/08/16, 8:56 PM, "anti-abuse-wg on behalf of ox"
> >>> <anti-abuse-wg-bounces _at_ ripe _dot_ net on behalf of andre _at_
> >>> ox.co _dot_ za> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>      Unauthorized access is NOT ABUSE, in terms of the current
> >>> definition:
> >>>      "The non sanctioned use of a resource to infringe upon the
> >>> usage rights of another resource"
> >>>      
> >>>      And, this is the crux of it all, this defining of "abuse" is
> >>> exactly why we require a definition.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum
> >>
> >
>