SV: [anti-abuse-wg] DRAFT: RIPE proposal - implementation of an

On 12 Apr 2010, at 11:27, Frank Gadegast wrote:

> Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
> 
> Still no "hello" from you ...
> (and then complaining about "my tone")

Frank

I've addressed emails in reply to you "correctly" ie. by including your name - yet you still expect me to post using some kind of form that you like.

It is NOT correct in English to open an email with the line "Hello John Doe"

>>> 
>> That is wide open to gaming.
> 
> See me next mailing about this.
> I explained it now 10 times, and maybe
> you read the 11th.
> Thats whats the backlink is for.

Just because you repeat something 10 times does not make it right

> 
>> Taking care of a complaint can be as simple as closing the ticket.
> 
> Right, and to give a comment, select a category or whatever.

You don't know how our ticketing system works or that of anyone else other than your own.

If we simply close a ticket you won't see anything

> 
> But: you will still get those that do not react at all,
> that have a dead abuse address aso.

So you won't know about them. Or, as someone else suggested, you could simply route all the email to /dev/null 

> 
> And it will be quite easy to detect, if one member
> simply closes all his tickets without giving
> any feedback.

Why would anyone "give feedback" if the "complaints" were just a massive waste of time to deal with?


> 
>>> Looks like you did not read the DRAFT at all.
>>> Thats excatly why we need a system at RIPE.
>>> And the pros and cons of such a system are discussed here since last week.
>> And I and others have pointed out why such a centralised system is a fundamentally flawed idea
> 
> Right, but its not at all helpful to repeat the cons.

Why? Because you don't like them?

> 
> It would be more helpful, if you present ideas to make a whatever
> anti abuse system make it to work, so that you like it.


If you want to push standardising abuse reports then I'd be more than happy to help you.


> 
> What do you need to drop your cons ?

A sane solution to be presented to me by someone who actually has an understanding of how things work in the real world?


> 
>>>>>> 3. Give RIPE possibility to fine the misbehaving ISP or to cancel the agreement in worst case scenario.
>>>>> A big yes, but we will have to find consensus here, whats worse
>>>>> and what punishment could happen, there are a lot of possibilities.
>>>> You cannot expect anyone to agree to being fined without workable definitions
>>> Again, you dont need a definition.
>>> Its only important that the members takes care about complaints.
>> "Take care" how exactly?
> 
> Up to the member.
> Nobody will tell the member how to react, and how could we ?

Hangon. You want to modify the RIPE contracts with each and every member and introduce penalties etc., You need to be less vague.  


> 
>> You really can't be this vague if you want to modify a contract and introduce censure against RIPE members
>>>>>> Cons. I dont know if the spamreports on spamcop are reliable or if they can be forged by spammers. I guess their shoud be some way of fixing that problem if that is the case.
>>>>> The system is well known, and most big provider use it
>>>> That's a wonderfully broad sweeping statement.
>>>> Do you have proof to back that up?
>>> No, and I dont have too, because I sayd, that RIPE needs an own system
>>> to be bullet-proof, toher source "could" be used to proof
>>> own data, nothing more.
>> You are putting forward a proposal which you expect to be taken seriously
> 
> Not at all, its a draft for discussion, thats what we are
> doing here. The next version will be much better and suite
> the needs of much more people here on the list.
> But surely only those that give feedback about how to make it better.

Well I've told you clearly what I don't like. 


> 
>> If you cannot defend it properly why did you even start?
> 
> Sorry, you dont help the discussion.
> All you do is critizising me (not for the first time
> and too personal I would say).

Of course I am going to criticise your idea - it's malformed and totally unreasonable



> 
> I have nothing to "defend", an RFC is a
> "request for comment", if you dont know that.

> 
> Do your comments, give ideas, tell me how to make
> a better system, that suits even more people.
> 
> Others on this list give really valuable feedback,
> like "hm, thats not a good idea, you did not think
> about this or that, better do it this way",
> thats what I need.

So because  you don't like my feedback you think it's not "valuable"?




> 
> But I can write an RFC with the title
> "RFC 3302: why frank is that stupid"
> then you can comment me personally ...
> 
> 
> Kind regards, Frank
> 
>>> 
>>> Kind regards, Frank
>>> 
>>>>>> Martin Tranefjord
>>>>>> 
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
>>>> ICANN Accredited Registrar
>>>> http://www.blacknight.com/
>>>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>>>> http://mneylon.tel
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>> US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361
>>>> Locall: 1850 929 929
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
>>> --
>>> PHADE Software - PowerWeb                       http://www.powerweb.de
>>> Inh. Dipl.-Inform. Frank Gadegast             mailto:frank at powerweb.de
>>> Schinkelstrasse 17                                fon: +49 33200 52920
>>> 14558 Nuthetal OT Rehbruecke, Germany             fax: +49 33200 52921
>>> ======================================================================
>>> Public PGP Key available for frank at powerweb.de
>>> 
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
>> ICANN Accredited Registrar
>> http://www.blacknight.com/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://mneylon.tel
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361
>> Locall: 1850 929 929
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen,
> --
> PHADE Software - PowerWeb                       http://www.powerweb.de
> Inh. Dipl.-Inform. Frank Gadegast             mailto:frank at powerweb.de
> Schinkelstrasse 17                                fon: +49 33200 52920
> 14558 Nuthetal OT Rehbruecke, Germany             fax: +49 33200 52921
> ======================================================================
> Public PGP Key available for frank at powerweb.de
> 

Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
ICANN Accredited Registrar
http://www.blacknight.com/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://mneylon.tel
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
US: 213-233-1612 
UK: 0844 484 9361
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845