[anti-abuse-wg] update on netsecdb project

On 6 Apr 2010, at 16:45, Brian Nisbet wrote:

> Frank,
> 
> I have assumed, hopefully correctly, that you meant this mail to go to the list again, so I have copied my reply there.
> 
> "Dipl-Inform. Frank Gadegast" wrote the following on 06/04/2010 16:03:
>> 
>> Hello Brian,
>> 
>>>> How can not anybody have an idea, how to solve the problem ?
>>> 
>>> Many people have many ideas, not all of them work.  There remains no
>>> silver bullet.  And any recommendation made still needs to be adopted.
>> 
>> I just discribed one arround launch time.
>> RIPE should urged all members to stop spam originating from their networks.
> 
> You did not describe a silver bullet.  The RIPE community has urged their members to stop spam and abuse for years, RIPE-409 says it quite plainly, this has been the repeated advice.  There are potential ways of enforcing this, but please do not claim that what has been discussed so far today will suddenly stop network abuse.

You can suggest things until the cows come home, but you cannot expect RIPE or anyone else to come up with a "magical" solution that is going to make everyone happy

The other thing is that a lot of anti-spam / anti-abuse people don't realise is that they are their own worse enemies
More often than not they do not take into account the business realities

If an ISP / hosting provider were to act as quickly as some people would like them to act plenty of innocent bystanders would be harmed and the ISP / hosting provider would probably be sued.

> 
>>>> Usally there are to many ideas resulting in at least something to do.
>>> 
>>> And many things have been discussed, and often solutions suggested.  It
>> 
>> Not on the list.
> 
> And the minutes of each meeting are posted to the list.  So far no discussion has come out of them.
> 
>>> is up to people to implement those suggestions or to make proposals to
>>> the RIPE community and perhaps ask the NCC to undertake a task.  In
>>> addition, as we discussed in Lisbon and as we will be discussing again
>>> in Prague, the two chairs of the WG have been working with the NCC and
>>> international law enforcement to look at ways of furthering cooperation
>> 
>> goverments ?
>> this will make all worse and slower ...
> 
> The aim is to get governments and LEAs onside, to examine policies and procedures at RIR level and to avoid the making of necessary legislation and to keep the bottom up consensus approach.  However there is no way that governments will not be involved, the idea is to take their input and show them we, as a community, are acting.

Governments are going to get involved at some level regardless of whether you like it or not.

Take a look at what has been going on with the GAC or law enforcement's latest statements regarding domains .. 


> 
>>> and putting procedures in place that can more directly tackle network
>>> abuse.  However this is, as you must appreciate, not a simple or fast task.
>>> 
>>>>> we hope, in May, to chair another productive meeting.
>>>> 
>>>> What will be discussed there ?
>>>> Agenda ?
>>> 
>>> We're trying to finalise the agenda at the moment, but the work that is
>>> taking place with the NCC, the RIPE community and the LEAs will be
>> 
>> Well, please post it to the list, so that it can be discussed before
>> its finalized.
> 
> I will post an agenda, but I'm not sure what discussion there is likely to be as my two calls for agenda items have, so far, met with one single response.  Equally, the agenda of any WG is reasonably mutable and on occasion has been finalised an hour or so before the meeting, so there will be plenty of time for discussion.
> 
>>> playing a major part.  I hope to have a first draft by the end of this
>>> week.  Obviously if any proposals are brought to the WG before the
>>> meeting on Thursday 6th, discussion time for them will be allocated on
>>> the agenda.
>> 
>> All this should happen all on the list, not everybody can attend meetings.
> 
> Apologies, I should have been clearer.  As has been stated elsewhere and, I believe, on this list, while policy proposals will, undoubtedly, be discussed at meetings, the primary place to discuss policy is the WG mailing list and there is no intention or plan to purely discuss things at meetings.
> 
> Brian.
> 


Regards

Michele


Mr Michele Neylon
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